Trump announcing on Weds that USA recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel

[Aehl]

The situation has changed you are are stuck in your time bubble there was a real chance at peace with Saudi Arabia heading this deal. It was an opportunity to turn a new page and focus on containing Iran. Trump just gave an extremely big gift to Iran now the entire Arab world has to side with them. The people in Trump's circle objected to this, the only people who thinks this was a good idea are people like you and Steve Bannon who want to see the middle east bathed in blood.

No there wasnt. The Saudis have their own vested interests in this as well. They could have done this a long time ago and chose not to.

BTW that last part is garbage. I want to see it all go away.

If, tomorrow, Mahmoud Abbas said publically

"We will renounce violence, we recognise Israel, we want to talk and find an agreement"

want to see how fast this cycle of violence ends? It would be gone in a DAY. HAMAS wants 100% and wont negotiate or agree to a compromises, as has been said they have been offered MULTIPLE deals like the one I outlined earlier...I know it wOnt be perfect, it never is.

Each side has to give and take.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/bill-c...mount-in-2000/

Israel, he said, agreed to hand the Palestinians control of the Temple Mount, the holiest site in Judaism and the compound where al-Aqsa Mosque is situated, on the condition that the area around the Western Wall remain under Israel’s control.

and

However, Clinton said, no agreement was reached under his aegis because although Israel, under Barak, agreed to give up 96 percent of the West Bank, the Palestinians, under Arafat, “never said yes.”

They could go back to that agreement tomorrow, say yes, hammer out the details, done, end, no one else has to die.

What do I want?

An end to this useless stupid and hopeless bloodshed. i wan an end to the Middle East powderkeg. I have seen this shit for close to forty years and I pray to God one day we find a way to stop it.

But NOT at the cost of Israel and her people.

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Palestinians shouldn't accept anything less than the 1947 partition plan.

The one they rejected?

The Plan was accepted by the Jewish Agency for Palestine, despite its perceived limitations.[5][6] Arab leaders and governments rejected it[7] and indicated an unwillingness to accept any form of territorial division,[8] arguing that it violated the principles of national self-determination in the UN Charter which granted people the right to decide their own destiny.[6][9]

and

Arab leaders and governments rejected the plan of partition in the resolution and indicated that they would reject any other plan of partition

[Mormolyce]

There really isn't much to think about. As The Penguin mentioned, Israel has been a major U.S. ally forever and it is standard U.S. policy for decades to recognize Jerusalem and move its embassy there. Previous presidents waivered out of fear of angering their other ally the Saudis, and of escalating the conflict in M.E.

Why would Presidents of two parties with radically different foreign policy objectives impose a veto every six months against an act of Congress? Are you seriously arguing that George W. Bush was afraid of starting shit in the Middle East?

Think harder. I'll give you a hint: the real answer isn't about the Middle East at all.

[Draco-Onis]

No there wasnt. The Saudis have their own vested interests in this as well. They could have done this a long time ago and chose not to.

Yes they have the vested interest in STOPPING IRAN LEARN TO READ again things have changed. You can go back to the 1990's you seem to be stuck there Clinton is not president.

[Jastall]

We Jews didn't choose the place we emerged from thousands of years ago. Would you tell Scots, for example, not to choose Scotland as a place to found their state, or French people not to choose France? Jews came from Israel, it's archaeologically / scientifically proven fact, backed up by thousands of artifacts and different finds. We cannot change that; it would only be natural some day our people will return to the land of our ancestors which was taken away from us.



I personally think that the Old City (all the area with the holy sites) should be neutral, under U.N. control or such (like Vatican). Then, rest of Jerusalem can serve as a capitol of both Israel and future Palestinian State (Western and Eastern part). With both sides having access to the holy sites.

''We was here first!!'' doesn't really convince anyone. You use France as an example yet it only became united a few centuries ago and the entity known as France today has historically been highly divided and is composed of several different populations settling its lands; the Franks who give the place its name came from what is now Germany and perhaps the Netherlands, yet they don't lay claim to these places. The Romans were also highly important to France's history yet it doesn't lay claim to Rome.

Jews have lived far longer out of Israel than within it, developing into several different ethnic groups out of it. That they come from there did not force them to settle there. The truth is, they were given the land by the West (British in particular) and there's been war over it ever since. And they were probably given some Muslim-filled patch of dirt in the Middle East because settling them in Europe would prove too complicated as nobody wanted to give up their lands. But the Arabs have much less clout, so who cares what they say. It happened to be Jewish holy land, yay.

The problem is that there's no real solution. Nobody wants peace; the Palestinians are ruled by Islamic extremists clamoring for extermination, and Israel has little to no intention of respecting treaties and engagements, and acts like a beacon of morality while maintaining a mini Apartheid then wondering why people hate them. There's no incentive for peace; for Palestine, hatred of Israel keeps the leadership in power, for Israel the besieged mentality unites them around the government and wins elections.

If I were absolutely forced to do so I'd choose Israel over Palestine as they at least are a democracy, but beyond that they deserve each other. I'd wish little more than disengagement from everyone else from this conflict, but realpolitik doesn't work that way sadly, Washington needs its area of influence as does Tehran.

[Khaza-R]

The situation has changed you are are stuck in your time bubble there was a real chance at peace with Saudi Arabia heading this deal. It was an opportunity to turn a new page and focus on containing Iran. Trump just gave an extremely big gift to Iran now the entire Arab world has to side with them. The people in Trump's circle objected to this, the only people who thinks this was a good idea are people like you and Steve Bannon who want to see the middle east bathed in blood.

Seems like the same story of everything Saudia Arabia does. They outed Qatar and drove them straight into the arms of Iran. They armed hardline Islamist groups like al Quada in Syria and created more support for Hezbollah. Even now their disastrous handling of the blockade in Yemen is about to meltdown into a global humanitarian crisis

[Poopymonster]

I think he's doing it just to screw with Kushner. "How's that peace plan coming along, son?"

"Now, stop talking to Mueller, understand?"

[Polyxo]

No there wasnt. The Saudis have their own vested interests in this as well. They could have done this a long time ago and chose not to.

BTW that last part is garbage. I want to see it all go away.

If, tomorrow, Mahmoud Abbas said publically

"We will renounce violence, we recognise Israel, we want to talk and find an agreement"

want to see how fast this cycle of violence ends? It would be gone in a DAY. HAMAS wants 100% and wont negotiate or agree to a compromises, as has been said they have been offered MULTIPLE deals like the one I outlined earlier...I know it wOnt be perfect, it never is.

Each side has to give and take.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/bill-c...mount-in-2000/



and



They could go back to that agreement tomorrow, say yes, hammer out the details, done, end, no one else has to die.

What do I want?

An end to this useless stupid and hopeless bloodshed. i wan an end to the Middle East powderkeg. I have seen this shit for close to forty years and I pray to God one day we find a way to stop it.

But NOT at the cost of Israel and her people.

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The one they rejected?



and

Yes, that should be a minimum. In reality, they should've been given far more, as originally promised by the British administration of Palestine in exchange for their assistance. Unfortunately, the United Kingdom reneged on this, and opted to create a European colonial state in the middle east at the expense of the native population.

[Draco-Onis]

Seems like the same story of everything Saudia Arabia does. They outed Qatar and drove them straight into the arms of Iran. They armed hardline Islamist groups like al Quada in Syria and created more support for Hezbollah. Even now their disastrous handling of the blockade in Yemen is about to meltdown into a global humanitarian crisis

Well this one is on the US, Iran is going to become stronger and it will have the entire international community behind it. The United States is no longer relevant in terms of mediating in the middle east once again Trump has weakened our position on the world stage. There is no winning here it's a diplomatic disaster.

[Breccia]

On a more serious note, Israel is our ally. Most of the countries opposed to this are not.

You mean besides Mexico, Canada, most of EU, Saudi Arabia, and the Pope?

Most countries are opposed to this. That's why they haven't done it themselves. Your statement is blatantly false.

[Polyxo]

Seeing as Israel has no interest in any future for Palestinians, the PA should dissolve, and force Israel to essentially annex Palestine. This would give ethnic Palestinians the demographic advantage to legislate their way to a state.

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You mean besides Mexico, Canada, most of EU, Saudi Arabia, and the Pope?

Most countries are opposed to this. That's why they haven't done it themselves. Your statement is blatantly false.

I keep seeing "Israel is our ally", or even "Israel is our closest ally. They're not. They're a regional problem at best. They regularly disrupt American policy in the region. They can't be counted on to support American interests in international forums. They provide no logistical support to American militaries. Their government regularly enables Israeli businesses to violate American IP. They committed state terrorism against American businesses in Egypt. Lastly, they stole and sold American nuclear defense secrets to the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War.

[Shadowferal]

Israel is an ally that's more akin to a rabid dog fighting on your side of the fence. It's just a matter of time before it rips into you, as it did for the USS Liberty when Israelis deliberately destroyed and killed our own.
And we did nothing.

[Breccia]

While you can read the full text here, the country of Jordan has now accused the US of breaking a UN charter.

The Jordanian Government on Wednesday said the U.S. decision to recognize Jerusalem as capital of Israel and move the U.S. embassy to the holy city is a violation of international legitimacy resolutions and the UN Charter, which clearly stipulate that Jerusalem's status is decided through negotiations and deem all unilateral actions aimed at imposing new facts on the ground null and void.

I believe this has been mentioned, but not linked or quoted, before. Sorry it if has.

[Blur4stuff]

Well, I suppose if you want more anger and violence in the Middle East then this is one way to do it.

[Shadowferal]

From a diplomatic perspective...worldwide, Jordan is a big gun. Even Israel tries to play nice with them.
*sigh*

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Well, I suppose if you want more anger and violence in the Middle East then this is one way to do it.

I have to wonder if this isn't a distraction from home politics.

[Mittens]

It's basically their capital so no point in pretending otherwise.

[Worvon]

Israel is an ally that's more akin to a rabid dog fighting on your side of the fence. It's just a matter of time before it rips into you, as it did for the USS Liberty when Israelis deliberately destroyed and killed our own.
And we did nothing.

Yep, just a terrorist nation we fund. US needs to just pull all support and let nature run it's course in the region. Then boom, nice and stable again.

[Thekri]

Is this a joke post?

Well I don't find it funny, and I wrote it. So I am going with no.

Your comment didn't add a lot to the discussion, you don't make any points one way or the other.

[Dacien]

Well, I suppose if you want more anger and violence in the Middle East then this is one way to do it.

A foreign policy twist on the Heckler's Veto. Threaten enough violence and maybe you can get your way.

Use "stability" as a bargaining chip, to put it in kinder terms.

[Z-Man]

Then boom, nice and stable again.

Again? The last time this area was stable, there were icecaps covering half the planet.

[Dacien]

I can't believe this is even controversial. I mean, I can, but the fact that it is, is a disheartening reminder. Israel is a bastion of Democracy and freedom in the Middle East. People will pull up every misdeed by the Israelites, and nobody would argue they have their hands clean of any wrongdoing period, but you simply can't compare. Israel, for example, rigidly follows the law of armed conflict, going to greater lengths than necessary to try and ensure as few civilian deaths as possible. Israel's opponents, by contrast, use suicide bombers, human shields, and hide weapons in civilian areas. As David French put it, violating the law of armed conflict is part of their strategy.

I could really go on and on, but this is rightfully the capital of Israel and we should be supporting them to the fullest extent of our hearts.