Heroic Argus is too easy for an end-of-expansion boss

[Deleted]

More people will see the end of phase 4 with the hilarious number of swirls now, that's cool.

Thats the cool part about these phase, you have to dodge them ALL

[Puri]

So the 'casual heroic only guilds' want a harder boss so they can progress on it LONGER? Meaning they want more raid nights on him? Hmm.. I'm thinking of a way they could progress after killing the last boss on heroic.. Oh yeah mythic.

If you want more progression nights on the Argus what's your excuse for not trying mythic?

Getting a fixed 20 people roster when the main advantage of normal/heroic is that it doesn't matter if you start with 14 or 24 people, which is the reason they are "heroic" only in the first place.

[Deleted]

Getting a fixed 20 people roster when the main advantage of normal/heroic is that it doesn't matter if you start with 14 or 24 people, which is the reason they are "heroic" only in the first place.

for the 14 yes, for the 24 no. No one cares if he has to sit out every 5 weeks.

[Puri]

for the 14 yes, for the 24 no. No one cares if he has to sit out every 5 weeks.

You missunderstand. I am talking about a single raid group. And yes, people that work in shifts and can only play on half the raid dates would care.

[Deleted]

You missunderstand. I am talking about a single raid group. And yes, people that work in shifts and can only play on half the raid dates would care.

but if you have +20 people on one night in the week, you are ready to go. No player on a fix group should be mad if he has to sit out once. From my experience as a raidlead, I never had a big issue if people have to do it. It is still better then clearing HC over and over and over again.

[Puri]

but if you have +20 people on one night in the week, you are ready to go. No player on a fix group should be mad if he has to sit out once. From my experience as a raidlead, I never had a big issue if people have to do it. It is still better then clearing HC over and over and over again.

If you are a experienced raid lead, then you know that at the start of a raid tier you have a big amount of available players (last wednesday we had 26, while for our last tos raid we were 11). But as time passes, people stop playing, because they have no fun anymore or have real time committments they put back for the start of the raid.
So when you are at the point that you can do mythic, we don't have enough players anymore. And it's not only that you simply need 20 players, you also need the right roles and obviously it does not matter much if you carry someone in normal or heroic who only can play sporadically, but for mythic it does. If you would hit a brickwall with such players they can simply leave the raid group for one boss on the flex difficulty, for mythic this is not possible.
Additionally, the whole "instance ID" and same server issue makes it close to impossible to find a random player to join a progressing raid group.
Or in other words: It's easy to have a flex raid going, but it is significantly harder to maintain a viable fixed 20 player roster. I don't see why anyone would seriously argue against that.

[krl]

If you are a experienced raid lead, then you know that at the start of a raid tier you have a big amount of available players (last wednesday we had 26, while for our last tos raid we were 11). But as time passes, people stop playing, because they have no fun anymore or have real time committments they put back for the start of the raid.
So when you are at the point that you can do mythic, we don't have enough players anymore.

This is typical of a heroic-raiding guild doing a bit of mythic at the end of a tier. People quickly get what they want: AOTC and okish gear. They don't feel much motivation to do more.

However, the situation is different in guilds where the objective is mythic only. You have people aiming at cleaning the tier (CE), and they won't stop after a few weeks. We had high attendance for mistress relatively late during last tier, same for Star augur during NH.

[Puri]

This is typical of a heroic-raiding guild doing a bit of mythic at the end of a tier. People quickly get what they want: AOTC and okish gear. They don't feel much motivation to do more.

However, the situation is different in guilds where the objective is mythic only. You have people aiming at cleaning the tier (CE), and they won't stop after a few weeks. We had high attendance for mistress relatively late during last tier, same for Star augur during NH.

Yes, that's exactly what we are discussing. Why it isn't so easy for a heroic guild to raid mythic - even if it's not really the difficulty but the organizational problems that keeps them out.

[Deleted]

Or in other words: It's easy to have a flex raid going, but it is significantly harder to maintain a viable fixed 20 player roster. I don't see why anyone would seriously argue against that.

I won't argue with that. Your previously text read more like: we have between 14 and 24 players who are capble to clear HC, depending of the night of the week. I didn't saw an issue with 20+ players to get a group going for mythic, if you have cleared HC already. Even if it is for just one night. Filling one or two spots with randoms is no big issue.

[Xirrohon]

Antorus was the last saving grace for this expansion and Blizz failed hard. The only thing that will stop a lot of people labeling this as the worst expansion since Cata is the release of BFA earlier than expected. If we go 12+ months of just Antorus, watch the number of subs drop enormously.

[Teaon]

Antorus was the last saving grace for this expansion and Blizz failed hard. The only thing that will stop a lot of people labeling this as the worst expansion since Cata is the release of BFA earlier than expected. If we go 12+ months of just Antorus, watch the number of subs drop enormously.

so Antorus failed for you because top guilds cleared it fast?

lol, maybe go play the game boy.

[Xirrohon]

so Antorus failed for you because top guilds cleared it fast?

lol, maybe go play the game boy.

This is thread about H Antorus and has nothing to do with what top guilds are doing in Mythic... So im talking about the basic population that will clear N/H very quickly. Those type of players have no intention of raiding Mythic.

Im sure my guild will be working M Antorus for a couple of months.

[shyguybman]

My guild killed Maiden in 2 pulls first week of ToS but we have 30 on Coven at the moment.
Your point?

That Argus is a lot easier than KJ????

[Daan]

My guild killed Maiden in 2 pulls first week of ToS but we have 30 on Coven at the moment.
Your point?

Maiden is freeloot on heroic if everyone can distinguish green and yellow.
Coven is a typical council fight with lot of shit.

[antelope591]

The raid is much easier than Nighthold and ToS even on mythic. If you're really into raiding this is the time to actually try mythic. My 2 day a week guild is already 5/11 and no boss took us more than 10 pulls so far. For reference Spellblade and Sisters both took us 100+ pulls. People will have diff opinons whether the difficulty drop is good or bad, but you will see a ton of 6/11 guilds as early as next week.

[Deleted]

Once you get past p1 you are almost guaranteed to get to p4. p2 and p3 feel like normal level of difficulty they probably deleted a soak mechanic and didn't replace it with anything. And most of the difficult part of p4 is negated just by using heroism.

[Battlebeard]

How can you say this raid is easy? I think it might be the hardest they released yet. I can't find a single pug who can kill more than 2 bosses in normal even. In Tomb, by this time, I pugged 9/9 normal easily. Tomb is a lot easier than this.

[styil]

It still feels fairly easy post-buff, but not a complete pushover like the first iteration. Still nowhere near the likes of H KJ and H Archi. I would say still easier than Coven and Aggramar as all the buffs really did was increase the gear requirement.

[Kazuchika]

How can you say this raid is easy? I think it might be the hardest they released yet. I can't find a single pug who can kill more than 2 bosses in normal even. In Tomb, by this time, I pugged 9/9 normal easily. Tomb is a lot easier than this.

I've pugged heroic argus on 3 characters this week alone so that pretty much shoots down your theory.

[Cracked]

I've pugged heroic argus on 3 characters this week alone so that pretty much shoots down your theory.

I actually think that the real difficulty of Antorus for pugs comes from Coven, in my experience that's a total pug killer. Argus is still pretty easy, even after buffs.