Celestalon is gone and moved on

[Onikaroshi]

Not at all sure what that has to do with anything. Anything at all.

He argued wrong things constantly. He wanted BrM to basically remain at critical health for them to be good...

Like, if there's hate for a dev, this one kind of deserved it more then any other.

[Jester Joe]

this was a fucking classic, don't know how people can defend him, sure he is not alone, but come on

Pointing that hoping "now maybe they will undo the terrible things he did to the classes" is a false hope =/= defending him.

Yeah, he had unprofessional moments in even my opinion, but that doesn't change that the dude wasn't the reason for what happened.

Wasn't he also one of the people defending Holy Wrath as a talent, despite how obviously horrible it is?

80% sure that was someone else, who specifically said "Well then don't pick it". I don't recall Celestalon ever actually talking about paladins to be honest.

[Syegfryed]

Wasn't he also one of the people defending Holy Wrath as a talent, despite how obviously horrible it is?

That and the brewmaster thing show he obviously didn't have a clue what he was talking about and shouldn't have been in the position he was.

i also remember how he fuck up warlocks too, he did a lot of nonsenses

[Mirishka]

I don't think you've ever had the displeasure of actually talking to Celestalon.

Yeah? Well I have. And I think he's pretty great.

Those of you playing the 'yay now WoW will be great again' card are clueless. Utterly, laughably clueless. There is a TEAM of people working on this stuff. Say it with me: T E A M.

Now, for those of you unclear as to what constitutes a team, I'll explain: it is when a group of individuals works toward a goal or purpose. Meaning there's no singular person imposing his or her will on any facet of WoW. Just as GC leaving for Riot didn't magically 'fix' WoW, Celestalon's moving on won't either.

But hey, keep telling yourselves whatever helps you sleep at night.

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He argued wrong things constantly. He wanted BrM to basically remain at critical health for them to be good...

Like, if there's hate for a dev, this one kind of deserved it more then any other.

Just like GC deserved it, just like Holinka deserved it, blah blah blah. People need to grow up and find a better outlet for their emotions than 'OMG I HATE U VIDEO GAME DEV PERSUN.'

[Schizoide]

I'm sure he's a really nice guy and a good worker, but I don't like how classes have changed in the past 2 expansions and am excited to hopefully get some new blood in the team.

I hope the team focuses on communication as well. That's something both Watcher and Celestalon clearly despise. But it really is important. GC was vastly better at it.

[Icechaosss]

Yeah? Well I have. And I think he's pretty great.

Those of you playing the 'yay now WoW will be great again' card are clueless. Utterly, laughably clueless. There is a TEAM of people working on this stuff. Say it with me: T E A M.

Now, for those of you unclear as to what constitutes a team, I'll explain: it is when a group of individuals works toward a goal or purpose. Meaning there's no singular person imposing his or her will on any facet of WoW. Just as GC leaving for Riot didn't magically 'fix' WoW, Celestalon's moving on won't either.

But hey, keep telling yourselves whatever helps you sleep at night.

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Just like GC deserved it, just like Holinka deserved it, blah blah blah. People need to grow up and find a better outlet for their emotions than 'OMG I HATE U VIDEO GAME DEV PERSUN.'

Have my upvote that doesn't exist, as one of the only people with common sense on this damn thread.

[Onikaroshi]

Yeah? Well I have. And I think he's pretty great.

Those of you playing the 'yay now WoW will be great again' card are clueless. Utterly, laughably clueless. There is a TEAM of people working on this stuff. Say it with me: T E A M.

Now, for those of you unclear as to what constitutes a team, I'll explain: it is when a group of individuals works toward a goal or purpose. Meaning there's no singular person imposing his or her will on any facet of WoW. Just as GC leaving for Riot didn't magically 'fix' WoW, Celestalon's moving on won't either.

But hey, keep telling yourselves whatever helps you sleep at night.

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Just like GC deserved it, just like Holinka deserved it, blah blah blah. People need to grow up and find a better outlet for their emotions than 'OMG I HATE U VIDEO GAME DEV PERSUN.'

GC never argued for the majority of a beta with the entire community of a spec constantly telling them they were wrong when they provided numbers and facts otherwise lol

guy was an idiot.

[Schattenlied]

80% sure that was someone else.

There were 2 of them, it was Holinka and someone else... Might have been Lore.

[Razion]

Only credits he has on Wowpedia are to Artifacts and the Endless Halls. Maybe he'll be put to better use in Hearthstone..

[Schizoide]

GC never argued for the majority of a beta with the entire community of a spec constantly telling them they were wrong when they provided numbers and facts otherwise lol

Not numbers, no-- but he certainly made design decisions I strongly disagreed with. The difference was he would talk about them and explain how they were intended to work, so we could at least provide actionable feedback. That back and forth communication is really critical.

I strongly suspect that as WoW's subscription counts continue to drop the team will become much more communicative. When you're on top of the world you think your poop don't stink. That's what happened with Everquest.

[Generical]

He played WoW with a tablet right?

[Gsara]

Dont worry guys, we'll get to see his twitter shit on the front page here in a couple years just like Ghostcrawler and everyone will think he is genius.

[Schizoide]

I don't think so. GC likes to communicate, Celestalon does not. I would be surprised if he tweets about WoW at all, honestly, beyond "Just saw the new raid, wow the art looks awesome!" and such.

[Onikaroshi]

Not numbers, no-- but he certainly made design decisions I strongly disagreed with. The difference was he would talk about them and explain how they were intended to work, so we could at least provide actionable feedback. That back and forth communication is really critical.

I strongly suspect that as WoW's subscription counts continue to drop the team will become much more communicative. When you're on top of the world you think your poop don't stink. That's what happened with Everquest.

Sure he talked to the community, so did GC, but GC didn't have such a.... poor attitude when it came to the interactions, Celestalon was "my way or the highway"

[Schattenlied]

He played WoW with a tablet right?

A drawing tablet, yes, not a tablet tablet. And before people start, as someone who has one of those tablets, but uses a mouse, after that whole thing started I tried playing WoW with the tablet and it's really not that different from using a mouse... It took about 30 min to get used to and then I could do everything I was before with minimal effort.

I'm not a fan of the guy, but people shitting on him for that in particular really doesn't make sense.

[Jotaux]

I despise Celestalon.

[Kralljin]

Dont worry guys, we'll get to see his twitter shit on the front page here in a couple years just like Ghostcrawler and everyone will think he is genius.

People said the same when Holinka left...didn't happen.

People said the same when Dave Kosak left...didn't happen.


Not every Dev becomes Jesus after leaving the WoW Team, GC is the exception.

[Schizoide]

Sure he talked to the community, so did GC, but GC didn't have such a.... poor attitude when it came to the interactions, Celestalon was "my way or the highway"

I think you have a bit of rose-colored glasses on there. GC was pretty unmovable when it came to design choices, but if you made a cogent argument backed-up with math he would listen. And while I didn't agree with many of his design choices, I personally disagree with the current crop of devs much, much more.

Watcher was the one who said "we don't want you to play demo" and then deliberately nerfed the spec until it wasn't competitive. IMO, that is truly unforgivable. He's a great encounter designer, but a terrible lead designer/game director.

[Hctaz]

^ This.

Sadly the "my gaem is ruined REEEEEEEE!!!"-crowd seem to lack the ability to see reason.

TBF, Ghostcrawler never gave me concern at all. I always felt like he did his best for the things he could, but he was probably overtaken. He was part of the team that decided that Death Knights having each spec work for tanking and healing, and it was one of the things he absolutely LOVED about the class. I think there was something to say about that, and I know it must have been a tough decision to change DKs into a "traditional" class when it was something he seemed to be so passionate about. I always respected him because I always felt like he was genuinely working towards the good of the game.

I know that Celestalon doesn't have any more or less say in the matter than GC did, but I also think that GC's team did a lot of cool things that at least were functional, while Celestalon's team produced a lot of REALLY crappy things. Like... Survival is cool in theory to me, but they removed a ranged spec for "flavor" (and tbf, it was sorta envisioned as the melee spec in Vanilla, but was done so poorly that it was literally not functional as all melee). I feel like making a ranged demon hunter would be "hard", but so was making Death knights functionally have SIX DIFFERENT FUCKING SPECS in Wrath. And then I feel like Demo was a very cool concept (it was basically the exact same concept I came up with a ranged Unholy Death Knight spec in Cata that would use Int plate). but they executed it poorly.

I understand there are deadlines and complications, but the lead designer on a project is the man who is supposed to filter out the shit. He didn't do that very well, and their treatment of Frost DKs this expansion has made me even more upset.

[Aeula]

Being demoted to a card game has got to sting.