New Leveling and Dungeon Finder - Still ruins the experience

[WintersLegion]

There. You posted for me. The old group finding system is complete and utter garbage. A better compromise, is to remove the teleport to dungeon thing and have people use meeting stones/warlocks.

No that really isn't better as most people will just wait for summons and a lot of groups would just collapse because it was taking to long for someone to get summoned so they leave triggering others to leave.

[Rainal]

There. You posted for me. The old group finding system is complete and utter garbage. A better compromise, is to remove the teleport to dungeon thing and have people use meeting stones/warlocks.

This is a great idea as well; however with dungeons scaling I do not think it will be as bad as you think. Currently LFg helps me find raids, groups, and everything else for groups. So I do not think LFG is utter garbage. I just think that the barren pit of certain levels left people feeling it was a waste of time or useless.

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No that really isn't better as most people will just wait for summons and a lot of groups would just collapse because it was taking to long for someone to get summoned so they leave triggering others to leave.

i mean.... what? it takes two seconds to click a button. Generally if you are in the area of said dungeon then others will wanna join up in that area. I think sharding has saved this type of environment; but LFD shoo's it away.

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So, you want to give people bonus experience for walking somewhere but you also want to nerf bonus experience?

Try being consistent before spouting your ridiculous suggestions.

I want people to have immersion, but if people want to keep LFD they shouldnt just fly through it. They should have LFD as a means to experience a DUNGEON not power level. The point behind that statement (apologies for not clarifying) Walking some where is time and time is experience you could be gaining. So I want to equal out that time lost with the experience just to "walk somewhere"; you know what I mean?

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Level scaling won't solve the problem with leveling (although, it'll help). Linear questing, faster leveling from reduced XP requirements, and piss-easy mobs will still exist, so the only "real" solution is a total revamp.

They are increasing mob health and reducing damage - potentially fixing this on PRT.

[Dartz1979]

No to all you said.. you want that kind of stuff go play the vanilla server when its live.

[Rainal]

See I like this post because of a few things.

1. Blizzard wants to change the leveling experience for new players
2. Blizzard wants you to be able to experience the zones

I just hope they make changes to the adventure guide which tries to funnel you into dungeons right when you hit level 15. Dungeon experience is extremely accelerated (1 run at level 15 with quests + heirloom gets you to level 18 or so)

Thank you laqweeta. I agree. This should be a sort of intent. Like I went back and re-leveled and WoW is a beautiful game to level in. People would really enjoy it currently. Been playing for 13 years. I loved leveling through it every time; because that was the game. Others however want to skip to end game, but then think end game is slightly ... dull or not flavorful. Well it is because they missed out on the enriching spices they call lore. That is content to expect.

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No to all you said.. you want that kind of stuff go play the vanilla server when its live.

They have redone areas from vanilla that are really cool. I think leveling and questing as a character in an immersive game is the point of the content. Not click spam click spam speed through. Then complain about how dull 110 content is. Causing designers to create half the content in 77 days.

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Immersion is a personal experience.
Because it isn't for you, does not mean that it isn't for others.

There is nothing "forcing" players to AFK.
And what you suggest isn't actually going to improve the dungeon experience, as there will be far fewer actually participating in them.
And your "solution" to that is then rehashing the very bonus you want removed.
Which shows that the participation you want wasn't driven by the "immersion", but actually by the reward.

Spamming chat to get a dungeon group is not social.
It is about other players as a means to an end, just the opposite.
If you want social, then be the player who helps someone, without personal agenda, without promise of reward.
Simply because you want to improve their experience, even at the detriment of your own.

Valid points, I don't necessarily want social. I have that from my guild and all the friends I have on bnet. Which I made from getting raid/rbg groups and being consistent. There is a psychological point when I say "forcing" humans will always aim for an easy way to receive something. Look up "how game designers protect players from the game" on youtube. It helps explain what many designers aim for when creating solid enjoyable games. (which wow is... at times whhich is shown through the waves of subs/unsubs)

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Yeah I'm sorry the dungeon finder is the only thing that makes MMOs in general bearable. Look at games like GW2 where they are adding it later in a patch or a game like FFXIV where all dungeon content is built around queues.

Those are WoW's competition, those are the games sucking the life from WoW. Stop pretending that attracting old customers will expand Blizzard's market: It won't. Old customers are already done with the game.

This is prob true. mmo's are a dying breed sadly.

[Arakakao]

Once classic launches. Blizzard will realize the mistakes they have made with certain changes to the game.

will blizzard revert changes to warcraft? probably not.

will blizzard take the best things of classic and retail, and create a new MMO? I hope so.

if they can take all the things about retail, mainly its ability to foster and maintain community, and all the content in retail. It would make for one hell of a game

The only mistake about LFG is that it wasn't implemented at the start of the game.

[Rainal]

Would probably sell more character-boosts if they did XD
If you don't want to dungeon while leveling... then don't.

but if it's easier and simple and I want a 110 then I will do it. Then I, we, are all shooting ourselves in the foot missing out on game content. blizz should aim for that.

[Rainal]

You don't like spamming dungeons? Then WHY ARE YOU DOING IT?
Is it just because "it's the fastest available way"? Then it doesn't really seem you care much for the experience.


Dungeon finder good.

It may be a surprise for you, but there are people who started playing after it became a thing.
I learned how dungeons work through the dungeon finder. I learned what stats to prioritize when people in a low level dungeon told me. I learned how to properly tank, heal and dps in dungeon finder. And my favorite dungeon to this day is one I only did while leveling. In dungeon finder.

It helps new players to know and understand the game. It allows them to actually know something before they reach max level, where everyone expects them to know everything. And it makes those dungeons actually relevant outside timewalking and transmog farming.

Dungeoning is good it teaches you those things. Not finder. Now I do care about the content, but there is something in all of us that want to work faster rather than enjoying the full intent. I am not far from players who enjoy LFD (bc they enjoy it for its ease and quickness), but I can see the sort of damage it causes players when they just skip solid content creators made. Really sad to see. (Many things are optional, but not all things are right.)

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=) thanks - best of luck while you are leveling man.

[Laqweeta]

If you want all this, that's what Classic is for. Don't gut Live.

Pretty much this.

I can totally live without the Dungeon Finder. If it were to change AT ALL, I'd like to see it realm-only (this would obviously not work because 3/4 of the realms on wow are ghost towns)

So, in conclusion - don't change it.

[Rainal]

dungeon scaling allows the others who are at that "paramount" point just like you, beauty of the game is it doesn't end there. Now the content scales so it is relevant (which you would know if you participated in PTR ) kidding about tht last remark. I have not been in PTR due to work and time, but I read forum posts during lunch and I watch youtubers talk about their leveling experience.

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“I don’t like something, therefore other people shouldn’t be able to use it.”

Pass.

I am sorry I suppose it came across that I detest dungeon finder guys. I use it. I just believe it takes a side of experience away from all players. Which a developer or content creator should not allow.

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Just unsub and wait for classic to come out in a few years. Removing QoL features from the modern game would make zero sense when there will be a completely separate experience for the people who want leveling to be hard and tedious.

removing LFD doesnt make anything harder or more tedious; you just experience LORE, I am not saying extremely hard or tedious. I am saying man it is badass to see all the beginning undead questing things (up until 20) and the things they have redone to the game are awesome. I think as a developer or creator you should have people enjoy it.

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Just unsub and wait for classic to come out in a few years. Removing QoL features from the modern game would make zero sense when there will be a completely separate experience for the people who want leveling to be hard and tedious.

removing LFD doesnt make anything harder or more tedious; you just experience LORE, I am not saying extremely hard or tedious. I am saying man it is badass to see all the beginning undead questing things (up until 20) and the things they have redone to the game are awesome. I think as a developer or creator you should have people enjoy it.

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Rain, I think everyone has their own feelings on what "immersion" is to them. You don't like Dungeon finder, then by all means DONT use it.


Heres my 2 cents, I like it so I use it.

i like how easy it is; so i use it as well. do i still believe it ruins an aspect of the game? The amount of cut scenes they have added in sense vanilla are amazing. I am not saying LFD is something I hate; I am saying from a developer / content creator it removes a side of the game.

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They really need to crack down on trolls making new accounts just to troll. Maybe make it so you can't even post on certain subforums, like the vanilla one, until you have 100+ posts.

I'm not a troll. Just sharing my opinion and learning from you all. Thank you for your input. =)

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Pretty much this.

I can totally live without the Dungeon Finder. If it were to change AT ALL, I'd like to see it realm-only (this would obviously not work because 3/4 of the realms on wow are ghost towns)

So, in conclusion - don't change it.

I am not asking for vanilla content. Northern and Southern Barrens didn't exist. Certain quest lines and cut scenes weren't around until after CATA. I want people to experience the time and money developers put in to current wow. Nothing has changed with dungeons. Just click sit and kill.

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agreed and server sharding didn't exist.

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I mean that is an option, but killing a boss and getting gear is still enjoyable. But that isn't what LFD is. Its spam level dinging. =)

[Vampyr78]

First of all they not only make zones scale with level but also nerf power of heirlooms and buff mobs HP. You can't just rush through quests, you have use your rotation, and rather not be able to solo group quests. In dungeons people no longer will be able to pull all the trash to the boss and nuke it all, this might wipe whole group.

So it doesn't ruin the experience. Both leveling through quests and dungeons will be more engaging.

[Rainal]

No, leveling is fun the first time, the second time is because why not, got to have an alt, the 3rd is "Fuck this".

If anything, i am glad i have most classes at over 90 or 100 by now and i dont have to level that much, its such a fucking waste of time.

I wanna play and be competitive at the active raid/endgame/pvp whatever it is.

This I agree with... that is a tough pull that I feel as well.

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Never played a private server. Did play vanilla though. I think the game (with all of the "World" of warcraft is awesome")

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If you treat the game like "World-of-Queuecraft", it's a fucking you problem.

Stick to Classic, feel immersed. Let others feel immersed in the experience coming with 7.3.5 in terms of leveling.
Immersion is subjective, you don't own it nor do you have objectively superior tastes.

Immersion is the deep mental involvement second definition on webster. If it is "subjective" I wonder how much mental process goes into clicking a button. Scientifically I mean. Like how much of your brain is being used during that awhole process. Rather tahn engaging in Lore and quests. - Not dissing you but I am seriously curious.

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I think the Dungeon Finder is just fine. Dungeon Finder actually let's you play while you wait, where as in the "Good old days", you were tied to spamming the trade chat. Can only do so much in the major cities, sometimes for hours.

If memory serves, there used to be a global chat for the purposes of LFG, but it was taken away, as it was mainly used for chatting. The whole faction in the same chat made for a lot of spam.

with lfg/sharding you can open up LFG and search your group and join that group and walk into the dungeon with a group of people that have accepted you. Similar to LFD, but there isn't a bonus experience tied to it (unless the concern was people aren't doing this content enough maybe we can add a daily dungeon for experience bonus)

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First of all they not only make zones scale with level but also nerf power of heirlooms and buff mobs HP. You can't just rush through quests, you have use your rotation, and rather not be able to solo group quests. In dungeons people no longer will be able to pull all the trash to the boss and nuke it all, this might wipe whole group.

So it doesn't ruin the experience. Both leveling through quests and dungeons will be more engaging.

I wish I had time to play PTR and re-level I am excited for 7.3.5. I hope this is true with dungeons. The forums and youtube videos haven't touched much when I read during my free time.

[NatePsy]

-- They have Looking For Group - could use that as a means to get that. I am sure there will be tons of people you can shard over and group with.

Have you seen how annoying it is to get groups for previous raids, let alone old world content such as dungeons? They're a niche thing that only certain people are looking for. Like I keep saying, group finder has it's place because of how little the amount of population there is that actually does past content.

[Flurryfang]

Well OP, this is really all about you wanting to design the experience around your need and not about others.

From the point of view of Blizzard, i am happy, that the game is not designed with you in mind.

[Rucati]

I don't understand, if you want the experience of leveling through quests you can go do that. You can even take off heirlooms so it takes longer. If you want to level as fast/easily as possible spam dungeon finder.

WoW doesn't start until max level, the leveling experience is nothing more than a chore. I've leveled a handful of characters the last few weeks with recruit-a-friend, even with 300% xp and heirlooms it's still awful. If I couldn't spam dungeons while sitting in stormwind I wouldn't even consider leveling anything else. There is *nothing* fun about leveling. Every single aspect of it is boring and a complete waste of time. Making it take longer sounds like the worst idea ever.

Once you hit max level there's plenty to do, especially this expansion, but getting to max level is already a needlessly long grind, let's not make it any worse.

[Edlarel]

*Snip*

Well OP, this is really all about you wanting to design the experience around your need and not about others.

From the point of view of Blizzard, i am happy, that the game is not designed with you in mind.

I think what we all mean to say is...

[Hctaz]

That is one thing that has always confused me people complain that they level so fast they don't see the end of a zones story before it's time to go to a new zone so why don't they just stay in the zone until it's over if it's that important to them.

Because why would you continue to play the game when you are literally not getting anything from it? It's one thing if you're choosing between leveling or using the dungeon finder. I don't think the dungeon finder is THAT much faster for pure DPS classes. You really need a tank. You have a legitimate choice to do either or and still progress your character.

You don't have a choice at all whenever the quest zones go gray. The choice you have is what zone you go to next at that point, not whether to stay or not. I know that games aren't always about rewards, but why would you play a game when you aren't "winning"? Like... Solitaire is a pretty pointless and lonely game, but you still only play it to try to win.

[aviger]

Ah yes, i also loved the "immersion" of sitting in org for 3 hours yelling "LFG dungeon x!"...then getting a group together, running to the dungeon and
20 minutes after starting someone going DC or just leaving and going back to town for another hour then finishing the dungeon.

I do miss the days of being able to finish half a dungeon a day ...

SAID NO ONE EVER

[equus80]

That's a big giant NO to this idea.

Immersion is what you make of it and up to you personally to fulfill. If you feel dungeon finder ruins your immersion no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use it just because it's easier. It doesn't effect mine and clearly many other peoples immersion based on responses in this very post. Blizzard provides you the game and the tools to play it, they can't hold your hand through the whole experience, at some point you need to take responsibility for your own choices, and if you use the dungeon finder and say it ruins your immersion, that's 100% on you, not the dungeon finder.

There's not a single aspect of this game you can't experience by ignoring a certain QOL feature that has been added over the years. Saying some QOL feature ruins the game for you is your problem for using it. I find it hilarious to read posts like this, all it shows is your lack of self control. It's just like the no flying group who say flying ruined the game, but when they get told no one is forcing them to fly, they reply back with but it's easier so I have to fly. So your laziness and lack of self control by using an easier feature ruins the game for you, so you want that feature removed is literally one of the worst lines of argumentative nonsense I've ever heard in posts like this.

[VyersReaver]

TC, how about you go to the Classic forums and make yet another thread, titled "Retailers, please don't ask for changes, or you'll ruin it for us"?

[Dergiab]

Come back and take a look when 7.3.5 drops. LFD remains but dungeon running might be a lot more engaging since you will not be able to kill half the dungeon anymore in one swoop.