How to deal with guild change?

[MatthewOU2015]

I’ve been in my current guild for almost two years now and I feel things are changing for the worse. We are a causal guild. We tried mythic and failed, not counting the first 3 mythic bosses in nighthold. We let mistakes happen and we let people slide with low dps. We struggle in heroic but we always get AoTC. In t21 things have changed, people get yelled at for making mistakes, people are getting kicked after “ two strikes” and we are constantly talking about going on to mythic mode ASAP. On top of all that we are now running masterlooter. In my time with the guild we always ran with personal loot. The officers go into a special voice chat channel and gear is given to people.



I’m a casual at heart and don’t like the direction the guild is going. How do I deal with this? I don’t want to leave

[Huntaer]

So it's a casual guild but they kick people that easily + you raid mythic?
Which part of it is casual?

[Onikaroshi]

The leaders are taking the guild in a direction you don't want to go. There really is only two options:

A) Stick it out, with all the issues and watch it fall apart because obviously not everyone is on board

or

B) Leave now and find another casual guild that meets your needs

When officers try to force this kind of change it never ends well, whether you want to or not your raiding days with that guild are numbered as people will probably start leaving.

[mauserr]

Lmfao. Struggling in heroic and kicking people for 2 strikes. Fucking get out of that guild as soon as possible, this is a god damn cesspool. I've raided in a top30 guild and some lower ranked ones and it was nowhere near as cancerous, even though our raiding hours were much longer, requirements stricted, there wasn't that much bullshit though, lmao.

[Sevyvia]

You either accept the new direction of the guild and adapt to it (the staying with your friends option) or you decide that being casual is more important to you (busy RL or whatever) and find a new guild and make new friends there. Changing from a casual "we'll clear heroic eventually" guild to a mythic guild is likely going to be fraught with drama, change and danger, any of which might kill the guild anyway, so that may be an argument for leaving now rather than later. On the other hand, if you stick it out, you could either get less casual, or perhaps join/create a casual raid night where the group does normal/heroic, where you could play with your friends. If the guild then ends up dying due to trying to change, you can essentially just try to continue this, with your friends.

There is no easy solution here. You just have to take a little time to think through what you care most about, and pick that.

[infernity]

Speak to an officer about your concerns. Running masterlooter isn't a bad thing, providing the loot council who are sorting gear are looking at gearing the raid team, rather than gearing a few individuals.

But overall, i'd say speak to someone. Like the guy above said, you should all be told beforehand about changes, such as switching to ML, and the new 2 strikes

So it's a casual guild but they kick people that easily + you raid mythic?
Which part of it is casual?

You can raid mythics casually. We do. No rush, taking it at a slower pace while keeping focus during pulls. Also, it would seem that the kicking is a new thing, based on OP

[Insonia]

So it's a casual guild but they kick people that easily + you raid mythic?
Which part of it is casual?

I have been in a casual mythic guild for about 2 years now they do exist
I raid twice a week and we managed to get about half way through mythic each tier

[clevin]

You either accept the new direction of the guild and adapt to it (the staying with your friends option) or you decide that being casual is more important to you (busy RL or whatever) and find a new guild and make new friends there.

Or, if you have friends in the guild and they feel similarly you 1) start your own guild or 2) all leave and join a new guild.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

So it's a casual guild but they kick people that easily + you raid mythic?
Which part of it is casual?

It's a casual guild that is trying to become a more hardcore guild. The Transition between those two states seems like it is being handled badly.

[clevin]

Speak to an officer about your concerns. Running masterlooter isn't a bad thing, providing the loot council who are sorting gear are looking at gearing the raid team, rather than gearing a few individuals.

But overall, i'd say speak to someone. Like the guy above said, you should all be told beforehand about changes, such as switching to ML, and the new 2 strikes



You can raid mythics casually. We do. No rush, taking it at a slower pace while keeping focus during pulls. Also, it would seem that the kicking is a new thing, based on OP

Yes, you can raid mythic while devoting little time (so casual in the time commitment sense) but you need to then be pretty good to get anywhere or you spend the limited raid hours reclearing the first few bosses all the time.

That isn't the sort of casual OP's guild seems to have been. They've been casual in the sense of raiding for fun and getting as far as they can get without that progress being the point of raiding.

[krl]

Transition from heroic guild to mythic (or whatever the name of current PVE high tier is) often goes sour. I've been on the other side, as an officer. Our clique succeeded at the end of Vanilla in dividing the guild between social and raiders, then set clear progression objectives to it.

We then successfully raided for 2 expansions, but in the process, we lost some people who didn't recognize themselves anymore in it, and of course, some were removed from the raid roster for lack of skill, dedication, attendance.

The alternative is having the raiding clique go elsewhere. Usually the guild then dies, what do you thing happens when most of the people who are active, present on the chat and vocal, suddenly disappear ?

[clevin]

Transition from heroic guild to mythic (or whatever the name of current PVE high tier is) often goes sour. I've been on the other side, as an officer. Our clique succeeded at the end of Vanilla in dividing the guild between social and raiders, then set clear progression objectives to it.

We then successfully raided for 2 expansions, but in the process, we lost some people who didn't recognize themselves anymore in it, and of course, some were removed from the raid roster for lack of skill, dedication, attendance.

The alternative is having the raiding clique go elsewhere. Usually the guild then dies, what do you thing happens when most of the people who are active, present on the chat and vocal, suddenly disappear ?

The issue here seems to be that OP is one of the raiding team and that the officers didn't involve the raiders in making this decision.

The other issue we have now is that raids below mythic are flex, so there can easily be a core team of raiders that show up every night and people who show some percentage of the time.

[Sevyvia]

Or, if you have friends in the guild and they feel similarly you 1) start your own guild or 2) all leave and join a new guild.

Technically options, but if the guy is a casual, he's unlikely to have time to put in the work generally required to get a guild off the ground. The 2nd one is more realistic, but it still requires a bunch of people to all agree to leave (Which presupposes that this is one friend group, rather than one guy's various friends), and then find a place that fits their collective raiding wishes and also has room for all of them.

Additionally, to the 2nd: As a raid leader/recruiter, I am naturally suspicious and likely to turn down groups applying together. 2 people, okay, sure. 5? 7? I'm likely to turn them down simply because it's going to be a massive blow to my group if these 7 people decide to leave us, because they're all gone at once. It's much better to recruit individuals or couples because trickle-leaving is far easier to handle, and much less likely to leave your group crippled or near-crippled.

[MatthewOU2015]

It’s hard finding other late night casual raiding guilds.

[clevin]

Technically options, but if the guy is a casual, he's unlikely to have time to put in the work generally required to get a guild off the ground. The 2nd one is more realistic, but it still requires a bunch of people to all agree to leave (Which presupposes that this is one friend group, rather than one guy's various friends), and then find a place that fits their collective raiding wishes and also has room for all of them.

Additionally, to the 2nd: As a raid leader/recruiter, I am naturally suspicious and likely to turn down groups applying together. 2 people, okay, sure. 5? 7? I'm likely to turn them down simply because it's going to be a massive blow to my group if these 7 people decide to leave us, because they're all gone at once. It's much better to recruit individuals or couples because trickle-leaving is far easier to handle, and much less likely to leave your group crippled or near-crippled.

Good points. I should have listed a #3 which is, of course, to leave by himself. However, if they want to find a heroic only guild you don't have the recruiting issues you raise - heroic flexes, so unless you're close to thew 30 person limit you're just hurting yourself by turning down a group... though I'd be very careful in having members of a group immediately take on critical roles like tanking.

Ultimately, this is a guild to leave, though regardless of the specific issue because unless we're not being told things accurately, it sounds like raid leadership is bad. Who takes a raid from casual to hardcore without making sure that their raiders actually want to move in that direction??

[krl]

Additionally, to the 2nd: As a raid leader/recruiter, I am naturally suspicious and likely to turn down groups applying together. 2 people, okay, sure. 5? 7? I'm likely to turn them down simply because it's going to be a massive blow to my group if these 7 people decide to leave us, because they're all gone at once. It's much better to recruit individuals or couples because trickle-leaving is far easier to handle, and much less likely to leave your group crippled or near-crippled.

If your roster is in need of 7 people, it's more a merge, which comes with specific problems. There are many semi-mythic guilds failing left and right mid-expac because of attendance problems who could be saved by merging, but it takes a special mindset and officers need to be very much aligned.

[clevin]

If your roster is in need of 7 people, it's more a merge, which comes with specific problems. There are many semi-mythic guilds failing left and right mid-expac because of attendance problems who could be saved by merging, but it takes a special mindset and officers need to be very much aligned.

I was thinking more of the fact that OP's current guild is a heroic-mostly one so it's flexible. My point in saying that OP and friends could quit and find a new guild is that if they found another heroic raid guild that wasn't already close to the 30 person limit it would work. Not if they joined a guild that wanted to keep to 20 so they could seamlessly go into Mythic, of course.

[xcess]

just pug, doesnt seem much different to your current situation and at least loot is personal or you have to realm change to a high population one and they will have raids at all hours

[Critical92]

Have a look for heroic only guilds. At least on my server they still exist. They don't rush the hc content in week 1 but they soon after will clear hc and farm hc+normal how they like or even do alt runs in normal+hc. Even with only hc you can get a nice high itemlvl that makes some mythic raiders jealous.
Have a try and see what your server has to offer or talk with your raidlead what direction they want to go and how you feel about it.