New Leveling and Dungeon Finder - Still ruins the experience

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

You don't have to queue for dungeons. I have leveled toons from 1-100 without a single dungeon (ok, maybe 1 or 2, because the quests led there).

[ThatsOurEric]

Go back to your classic private server.

This guy gets it.

[Deleted]

Leveling up without spamming dungeons doesn't need to be OPTIMAL, or even equal. It just needs to be fun.

Questing doesnt need to be equal to LFD? I guess, if Blizzard says so. LFD must be the true way.
But why. Why does LFD must be the optimal way of leveling.
Makes no sense in a open world MMORPG.
It's almost as if this is a instanced MMO like Monster Hunter or C9.

[SirCowdog]

Questing doesnt need to be equal to LFD? I guess, if Blizzard says so. LFD must be the true way.
But why. Why does LFD must be the optimal way of leveling.
Makes no sense in a open world MMORPG.
It's almost as if this is a instanced MMO like Monster Hunter or C9.

Good god. You're REALLY stuck on this concept of WoW being an open world MMORPG. Do you not realize that with phasing, sharding, scenarios, dungeons, raids, and battlegrounds....that WoW isn't really JUST an open world MMO? The open world is just part of a greater whole. It's not everything. It's not the theme for the entire game.

Here's a novel concept: If you like the open world....then level in the open world. Stop trying to screw with other people's playstyle because you don't like it. And FFS stop worrying about someone leveling faster or more optimally than you. It really doesn't matter.

[Deleted]

Here's a novel concept: If you like the open world....then level in the open world. Stop trying to screw with other people's playstyle because you don't like it.

I'm not trying to screw with other people's playstyle. Leveling via quests and LFD should be EQUAL.
If you are used to and enjoy the imba leet amazing overpowered l33t dank meme fast paced way of LFD
then
Leveling via Quests should also be imba leet amazing overpowered l33t dank meme fast paced way of leveling.

Thats just how things should be.

And FFS stop worrying about someone leveling faster or more optimally than you. It really doesn't matter

It does matter because at the end of the day i am Leveling. Leveling is what i am doing. I am gaining levels. I am leveling.
If there is an optimal way i will do it and so will 99% of other people.
And how good is leveling in the world alone, one shoting mobs in a complete deserted land?

[Lucetia]

But shouldn't *questing in the world* be the optimal way for leveling in world of warcraft?
That's the true question.
The next patch of world scaling in Azeroth...isn't it goiing to be a waste if no one ends up leveling in the world anyways? Because we all know nearly everyone spams LFD instead of leveling in the world. We know that right?
So if Blizz is spending resources making leveling in the world a pleasant experience...why not also make it optimal instead of spaming LFD?

If you are really wanting to go that route and use the word "world" as the key and define it as that way then still no. World encompasses so many different varieties of ways of doing things. So no, it's not limited to "world". Even looking up the definition doesn't say that and actually reinforces that there are multitude of ways we could be leveling.

If people truly want to make "outside leveling" the thing to do then they need to make it accommodating to everyone every time. I choose to level up via RaF + BoA + Dungeons because I've done world quests so many times I'm sick of them. I did then at least 10 times pre-cataclysm and another 10 times post-cataclysm. I've seen them all and don't really care about running back and forth doing things. I can just go into a dungeon, zone out and not care about what's going on and be optimizing my time the entire time. Then hit max level and start working on that content on various classes.

[Rainal]

@Rainal if you think most people are going to queue for dungeons without dungeon finder your sadly mistaken, you can sit outside the dungeon for 30 minutes if you want but i doubt anyone else will, i also think unless you paying for everyone elses sub you dont get to choose if people sit in cities waiting for dungeon queues or not.

but with the changes of scaling dungeons and scaling leveling zones and the sharding realms - LFG has a place it has a purpose. So no the 30 minute wait time would not exist. It would be very relevant to all levelers. And I know I do not pay for your subscription; but part of me feels for the developer. Like part of the game is not being experienced. Like you aren't getting the bang for your buck either. I can't choose for you; but I feel as if my opinion may help weigh into this particular situation to help everyone experience WORLD of Warcraft.

[Deleted]

If people truly want to make "outside leveling" the thing to do then they need to make it accommodating to everyone every time. I choose to level up via RaF + BoA + Dungeons because I've done world quests so many times I'm sick of them. I did then at least 10 times pre-cataclysm and another 10 times post-cataclysm. I've seen them all and don't really care about running back and forth doing things. I can just go into a dungeon, zone out and not care about what's going on and be optimizing my time the entire time. Then hit max level and start working on that content on various classes.

That's why leveling in the world should be equal to leveling in LFD and not 5 times slower.
It should be a true option not this influenced way.
If you dont mind me asking, how did you level your alts from level 100 to 110?

Let me answer that because i already know it
You leveled via quests in the world right? Because is the optimal way. (i know i can be wrong but at least this is what the majority do because is the optimal way)

Why cant this happen to leveling in the world in the next patch? It would be the perfect oportunity to revive the world a little bit at least.

[Rainal]

If you are really wanting to go that route and use the word "world" as the key and define it as that way then still no. World encompasses so many different varieties of ways of doing things. So no, it's not limited to "world". Even looking up the definition doesn't say that and actually reinforces that there are multitude of ways we could be leveling.

If people truly want to make "outside leveling" the thing to do then they need to make it accommodating to everyone every time. I choose to level up via RaF + BoA + Dungeons because I've done world quests so many times I'm sick of them. I did then at least 10 times pre-cataclysm and another 10 times post-cataclysm. I've seen them all and don't really care about running back and forth doing things. I can just go into a dungeon, zone out and not care about what's going on and be optimizing my time the entire time. Then hit max level and start working on that content on various classes.

If you were playing a roleplay game; which I define and I believe is defined as creating a persona upon a different "virtual reality" then you would have to virtually walk your hiney to the dungeon. Just like you have to drive your car to work in "reality" - virtual reality should keep similarities. Role Playing should have certain dynamics that say "these are laws of the world, but is filled with magic and beauty and takes me away from factual realm to fantasy."

If you have done each 10 times (so 20 characters you have to 110 im assuming?) you may even have a number of dungeons under your belt. That argument of "tired of seeing same content" is slightly irrelevant because you are spam queuing the same dungeons for 100 levels xD.

[SirCowdog]

I'm not trying to screw with other people's playstyle. Leveling via quests and LFD should be EQUAL.
If you are used to and enjoy the imba leet amazing overpowered l33t dank meme fast paced way of LFD
then
Leveling via Quests should also be imba leet amazing overpowered l33t dank meme fast paced way of leveling.

Thats just how things should be.

No, that's how you want things to be. Why does every experience have to be the same? Why can't leveling in the open world stand on its own merits?

You're too fixated on making everything equal without every stopping to figure out if it even matters(which it doesn't). Whether you level in the open world or go back to do it at cap, it's still going to be easy. Why does it matter how fast you reach cap when that underlying problem is still going to be there?


IMHO they should just scale up every zone to iLVL, and let the progression be based on the story of each zone instead of some arbitrary number next to your character portrait.

[Rainal]

I'm not trying to screw with other people's playstyle. Leveling via quests and LFD should be EQUAL.
If you are used to and enjoy the imba leet amazing overpowered l33t dank meme fast paced way of LFD
then
Leveling via Quests should also be imba leet amazing overpowered l33t dank meme fast paced way of leveling.

Thats just how things should be.



It does matter because at the end of the day i am Leveling. Leveling is what i am doing. I am gaining levels. I am leveling.
If there is an optimal way i will do it and so will 99% of other people.
And how good is leveling in the world alone, one shoting mobs in a complete deserted land?

Shadow I feel like you understand the importance of what I am saying on a developer scale. People are seeing dungeon finding as an option; i see it as an optimal course which everyone would rather choose. thus taking a huge aspect away from the game. Which as a developer is disheartening.

- - - Updated - - -

Good god. You're REALLY stuck on this concept of WoW being an open world MMORPG. Do you not realize that with phasing, sharding, scenarios, dungeons, raids, and battlegrounds....that WoW isn't really JUST an open world MMO? The open world is just part of a greater whole. It's not everything. It's not the theme for the entire game.

Here's a novel concept: If you like the open world....then level in the open world. Stop trying to screw with other people's playstyle because you don't like it. And FFS stop worrying about someone leveling faster or more optimally than you. It really doesn't matter.

Then the game would be called warcraft, not world of warcraft. :P

[ReleaseDay]

No, LFD and LFR should stay.

[Rainal]

This guy gets it.

but classic doesnt offer the new quest chains and deeply woven and accurately written Lore as post cata does.Beautiful writing and game development dwindled down to "enter dungeon" button being pressed.

- - - Updated - - -

No, LFD and LFR should stay.

I respect this, but why? Do you feel as if more casual players should experience the same amount of content? (though LFD is removing a majority of content if all you do is LFD). I feel as if the challenge or expertise of a normal raid is a concept of content in itself; but I could see how it can be hard if you do not have time to wipe 100 times in LFR. LFD should still be unlockable at max level. An end level gamer should earn that right at end level.

[SirCowdog]

Then the game would be called warcraft, not world of warcraft. :P

Thank you Captain Literal. I guess Deathknights should just only be able to hang out in the graveyards then, because they're DEATHknights. Oh, and as long as we're being stupid, since the game is called World of WARcraft, we should only ever be able to design plans and strategy for war, since we're crafting it. And Arms warriors should only be able to equip the severed arms of enemies. And while we're at it, Demon Hunters can only do damage to enemies with the demon type.

/facepalm

[Rainal]

I don't do the queueing in a major city thing because it's just so dull. I can't put up with it for long enough to get any real gains from it. Not being able to touch any mob because it falls over instantly is really boring.

it is dull and is less immersive. less engaging as a concept in whole. Therefore I used the word immersive. Your mind is less engaged, but your reward, your numerical gain is still the same, you still see your level being changed even though you never technically earned it.

[Deleted]

No, that's how you want things to be. Why does every experience have to be the same? Why can't leveling in the open world stand on its own merits?

But what merits?! It's 5 times slower! What are the merits of leveling in the world!?
Its empty
Its slower
Its unrewarding

[SirCowdog]

it is dull and is less immersive. less engaging as a concept in whole. Therefore I used the word immersive. Your mind is less engaged, but your reward, your numerical gain is still the same, you still see your level being changed even though you never technically earned it.

Wow...jesus...

Apparently people don't deserve rewards or fun unless they play in the way in which you approve of. Because they didn't "earn it" in the way that you prescribe.

FFS, I'm out. The stupid in this thread just reached toxic levels.

[Rainal]

Have you ever considered that everyone is saying it because it's true? Or can you not accept that your opinion is the minority's?

The point shadow is trying to make is; optimization will overpower meaning/intent of a game. RPG puts a human like you into the position of a character that is magical/brute strength. Then communicating within the game to become stronger of that character you chose to roleplay. BUT if LFD is around you're pressing 1234 and seeing a number go up. That is a calculator. That is not a game.

[Kithelle]

But isn't that what people did? Many people just sat in a major city and spammed channels, especially trade chat and then waited for people to hit the summoning stone.

[Rainal]

Wow...jesus...

Apparently people don't deserve rewards or fun unless they play in the way in which you approve of. Because they didn't "earn it" in the way that you prescribe.

FFS, I'm out. The stupid in this thread just reached toxic levels.

No i am not trying to be toxic, I suppose you achieved the numbers/levels you are looking for, and may have put minimal amount of time/effort in to achieve such things; but experiencing Lore and questing and playing the role of ROLE PLAYING GAME, is something special and unique. That is why a game creates such constructs. IF however you believe LFD is great - I want to know exactly why. Like give me a particular answer. We can discuss that answer. I would love to. If you find anything I say difficult to refute then maybe challenging your opinion may be best. As I would with you. Discussions are just that and I enjoy being influenced by your opinions.