Remember when Genn Greymane didn't watch the Horde cinematic for the Broken Shore?

[Squiggit]

Never really understood why Horde players always try to frame this as a 'misunderstanding'. Sylvanas had her troops pull back and let the Alliance tank the brunt of the demon assault to cover their retreat. Whether she did it purely to save the lives of her men or if she was intentionally trying to get the Alliance army wrecked is pretty immaterial and some members of the Alliance being upset is justifiable regardless.

Don't really see the point in trying to twist things around to frame it better for whichever faction you happen to like more.

[Shakou]

Never really understood why Horde players always try to frame this as a 'misunderstanding'.

Because it is 100% on your part a misunderstanding that the Horde betrayed anyone and is responsible for Varian's death.

The issue is that you think they had a fighting chance and they did not.

Since you're too lazy to read the thread so you're not coming in here at the end like you have something to add to this conversation we didn't already go though, just so you understand very simply that you are flat out wrong about this it is explained in the Rogue Order Hall Campaign that the whole assault on Broken Shore was based on bad Alliance intel and the Legion could have killed all of them at any time.

If the Horde had not retreated everyone would have died, this is a matter of fact.

Nobody is twisting anything, you just actually did not know the facts, thought you did but you really didn't. Now you do.

You can think I am an asshole all you want but the whole fucking point of this thread is that people on this forum have a terrible misunderstanding with facts and spread rumors and nonsense around and next thing you know people aren't even talking about what actually is anymore. Everything that needed to be said to set the record straight was on the first page. The rest of this has just been circular nonsense back and forth with people who didn't read the thread.

Read threads before you post, know facts before giving your opinion, stop spreading bullshit rumors. This isn't hard for anyone to do.

[Shakou]

The fact of the matter is

That your post is off topic.

[Squiggit]

Read threads before you post, know facts before giving your opinion, stop spreading bullshit rumors. This isn't hard for anyone to do.

I did. It was long and tedious. Doesn't change the point here though. Also a little ironic, given that most the points you're trying to make here aren't even relevant to my post.

[cparle87]

More importantly, being before or after the cataclysm doesn't change the fact she invaded a foreign peaceful nation and murdered its people with a banned WMD.

Garrosh started the invasion of Gilneas while Sylvanas was trying to commit suicide. She comes back, finds out Garrosh is planning on using her people as cannon fodder so his own men can take Gilneas. She convinces Garrosh to give her command of the invasion. She has to go through with what Garrosh began or she'll be branded a traitor most likely and Garrosh will go along with his plans and her people will be wiped out. Then to add insult to injury Garrosh forbids her from using her people's best weapon.

So Garrosh starts the war. Garrosh tries to send her people in to get slaughtered. Then Garrosh hamstrings their battle potential. Knowing what we do now about how Garrosh went off the deep end, I'd have to wonder if he was actually trying to get the Forsaken wiped out.

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And the entire Horde/Alliance war in general.

The fact of the matter is, every decision made by either side has been due to a misunderstanding. Garrosh became a warmonger because he didn't feel the rest of the Horde provided as much to the Horde as Orcs did - Which to anyone outside the Horde, is obvious, because the rest of the Horde doesn't have nearly as large a force as the Orcs have.
The Blood Elves became the Blood Elves because Garrithos was a racist asshole, despite most of the rest of the Alliance being decent people. They then join the Horde in part because the Alliance is spying on them/planning to sabotage their equipment due to them leaving, because the Alliance does not feel them leaving was justified, unaware of Garithos' involvement in their leaving.
The Horde became the Horde it was today because the Alliance did not understand that the Horde was fueled by a mistake in joining the Legion.
The Horde accepted the deal which made them slaves to the Legion because Gul'dan lead them astray, creating a misunderstanding that the Draenei and Azeroth were a threat to them to begin with.

The entire story of Warcraft is one of distrust of outsiders and unwillingness to hear both sides of a story. This is nothing new.

Yeah, this franchise is so literally built on the trope of http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...unicationKills it's kinda scary.

[Deleted]

Unless you are one of the few that never played Horde side, literally the whole reason for Horde/Ally conflict in Legion was based on a misunderstanding, yet it's one of the main reasons cited at Blizzcon for why there is conflict between the factions in BFA.

I would say the odds of Teldrassil burning being any different are slim to none at all.

But let's not let that stop people from taking unconfirmed rumors and baseless speculation as gospel.

its more complicated than that war between the factions has been on edge for a while things wernt resolved after the last one that needed to be. the siege of org could really be called more of an armistice than peace.

yes gen has it in for sylvanas and the forsaken and by extension the hord and yes he did attack un provoked in stomheim in revenge for the broken shore and his kingdom being invaded.

trying to point fingures of moral blame is a very illogical human trait we have as species, things are complex stuff happens because of long chains of events that at there start have unassuming gravity.

heres the rough sequence

sylvanas burns teldrasil because genn attacked her in SH because sylvanas invaded gilneas because garrosh orderd her to because king wryn declared war on the hord because of putress at the wrath gate because varimathras orderd him to.

its best not to look to hard for your franz ferdinand and just enjoy the glory of a good war.

[Shakou]

It's entirely on topic. Of course Genn Greymane didn't watch the Horde-side of the Legion into, he's not Horde side and innately has a bias against the Horde.

News flash: Controversy causes conflict. There's no story to tell if there's no misunderstandings, and "Everything is fine" wouldn't make for a fun game to play.

News flash: We're not actually discussing Genn's point of view here and the only confusion here was people chiming in and essentially saying because that's his point of view that's the right one. And yes that whole entire wall of text up there was off topic.

Also you clearly didn't read the thread. Try reading it, then responding. Works wonders.

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I did. It was long and tedious. Doesn't change the point here though.

Actually it does. It doesn't matter if you thought the thread was too long or too tedious because it's not your fucking thread. What you brought to the table is stuff we already discussed and/or debunked. There is nothing more to add here. From here on out your posts will be ignored.

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Garrosh started the invasion of Gilneas while Sylvanas was trying to commit suicide. She comes back, finds out Garrosh is planning on using her people as cannon fodder so his own men can take Gilneas. She convinces Garrosh to give her command of the invasion. She has to go through with what Garrosh began or she'll be branded a traitor most likely and Garrosh will go along with his plans and her people will be wiped out. Then to add insult to injury Garrosh forbids her from using her people's best weapon.

So Garrosh starts the war. Garrosh tries to send her people in to get slaughtered. Then Garrosh hamstrings their battle potential. Knowing what we do now about how Garrosh went off the deep end, I'd have to wonder if he was actually trying to get the Forsaken wiped out.

A lot of good points here, and ya I would have to say that Garrosh was very possible trying to get the Forsaken wiped out, at the very least it's clear that he saw them as some kind of abomination and thought he could use them as cannon fodder.

Yeah, this franchise is so literally built on the trope of http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...unicationKills it's kinda scary.

Well it's one that is very true to real life, I don't think it's an issue in and of itself, but what is kind of an issue is that Blizzard has had a strange way of portraying these things on screen. I think they need to stop with the whole different cut scenes for different factions type stuff because it just causes more confusion, people here are confused about whether or not there was any confusion at all and simply disregard the anything that doesn't back up their point of view. Kind of ridiculous.

[cparle87]

Well it's one that is very true to real life, I don't think it's an issue in and of itself, but what is kind of an issue is that Blizzard has had a strange way of portraying these things on screen. like this I think they need to stop with the whole different cut scenes for different factions type stuff because it just causes more confusion, people here are confused about whether or not there was any confusion at all and simply disregard the anything that doesn't back up their point of view. Kind of ridiculous.

I think the last time a big storyline cinematic happened with both groups was Wrathgate, and we all know how that turned out. The Horde and Alliance entered Undercity by different routes, faced different foes, and then at the end the Alliance runs into the Horde, and Varian misunderstands the entire situation and believes the Horde was behind it all.

[Shakou]

I think the last time a big storyline cinematic happened with both groups was Wrathgate, and we all know how that turned out. The Horde and Alliance entered Undercity by different routes, faced different foes, and then at the end the Alliance runs into the Horde, and Varian misunderstands the entire situation and believes the Horde was behind it all.

Actually I totally forgot about this, been so long since I did the battle for Undercity Quest I forgot there even was an Alliance version that totally played out differently.

Probably for the best they removed it, although people going into Antorus that weren't playing back then might still be confused.

[cparle87]

Actually I totally forgot about this, been so long since I did the battle for Undercity Quest I forgot there even was an Alliance version that totally played out differently.

Probably for the best they removed it, although people going into Antorus that weren't playing back then might still be confused.

Yeah. Alliance came in through the sewers I think, and their battle ended with them taking out Putress. I play Horde so I admit I was jealous. I wanted to wring his neck myself. Horde came in through the front. Thrall used the earth to build bridges and the wind to carry us safely down the disabled elevator shafts. And our final battle was Varimathras in Sylvanas' throne room with Sargeras watching and speaking through a portal. I think that was the first time he had lines in the game. After both battles were won Alliance moved into the throne room, saw Thrall and Sylvanas, and jumped to the conclusion that the Horde were in on Wrathgate and this whole 'battle for undercity' had been some kind of plot.

[Chubark]

A point everyone seems to be missing in here:

The entire Rogue Class Hall storyline revolves around the fact that, before the Broken Shore, Shaw of the SI:7 actually sent scouts to the Broken Shore to analyze the situation, whom the Dreadlord Detheroc murdered, kidnapped Shaw, and assumed his place while spreading misinformation about the Legion's defenses to the Alliance. After the Broken Shore, he fed misinformation about the Horde directly to both Anduin and Greymane, intent on setting the two factions against eachother.

That fact only fueled Genn's hatred against Sylvanas, which, along with most likely having a hand in posting Sky Admiral Rogers on the Skyfire, only served to ignite the fighting in Stormheim. Which, even though the Legion was behind everything, is an act of war.

[Eucep]

I remember talking with the horde pandaren leader Firepaw that it was clear he and his alliance counterpart talked immediately after, so everything was known of what happened on both sides.

[SealMemeSix]

Horde outright fled from the fight without warning their allies, the Alliance. Horde abandoned them in their time of need. Yeah shit was thoroughly hitting the fan for the Horde, but you don't just peace out without even a word.

Remember that whole "Victory or Death" thing? lmao Horde is no longer the faction of fierce warriors but rather the faction of edgelords. Horde are like a tween emo kid with upper-middle class parents. Edgy for no reason at all.

[Hubbl3]

Horde outright fled from the fight without warning their allies, the Alliance. Horde abandoned them in their time of need. Yeah shit was thoroughly hitting the fan for the Horde, but you don't just peace out without even a word.

Remember that whole "Victory or Death" thing? lmao Horde is no longer the faction of fierce warriors but rather the faction of edgelords. Horde are like a tween emo kid with upper-middle class parents. Edgy for no reason at all.

They sounded a horn. It's not the Horde's faul that the Alliance is too stupid to understand battle signals. I guess you would casually walking over to the other army and chat with them about retread. Thank god you are not in charge.

[clevin]

A point everyone seems to be missing in here:

The entire Rogue Class Hall storyline revolves around the fact that, before the Broken Shore, Shaw of the SI:7 actually sent scouts to the Broken Shore to analyze the situation, whom the Dreadlord Detheroc murdered, kidnapped Shaw, and assumed his place while spreading misinformation about the Legion's defenses to the Alliance. After the Broken Shore, he fed misinformation about the Horde directly to both Anduin and Greymane, intent on setting the two factions against eachother.

That fact only fueled Genn's hatred against Sylvanas, which, along with most likely having a hand in posting Sky Admiral Rogers on the Skyfire, only served to ignite the fighting in Stormheim. Which, even though the Legion was behind everything, is an act of war.

this is one of the things I hate most about Legion... Players who don't play a rogue would never know this. I get the idea of having various classes know things first but knowing things exclusively fragments the story.

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They sounded a horn. It's not the Horde's faul that the Alliance is too stupid to understand battle signals. I guess you would casually walking over to the other army and chat with them about retread. Thank god you are not in charge.

The complicating factor is that from the Alliance point of view, the Horde isn't being routed, their archers turn and walk away. Yes, we get that they're sounding a retreat and leaving but it LOOKS like abandonment from the Alliance perspective.

[SealMemeSix]

They sounded a horn. It's not the Horde's faul that the Alliance is too stupid to understand battle signals. I guess you would casually walking over to the other army and chat with them about retread. Thank god you are not in charge.

lol you sound a bit triggered. Look man I meant nothing by it. I'm sorry your faction is so edgy. I'm sorry your faction is so cowardly. I'm most sorry that your faction contributes little to each xpac except for filling the Shadow the Hedgehog, dark brooding trope. Based on your sig and avatar, that seems right up your alley though, so carry on.

[dadev]

this is one of the things I hate most about Legion... Players who don't play a rogue would never know this. I get the idea of having various classes know things first but knowing things exclusively fragments the story.

I know this sucks, but there's a valid reason why this part of the story is known only to a few. Half of SI:7 was compromised, the blunder resulted in massive loss of troops, death of the king and the warchief. While eventually the situation was resolved by the uncrowned. This is hardly something Alliance would want to advertise. This is even more spicy if your character is horde, as you infiltrate Stormwind and save Alliance from the rogue SI:7 agents. This is bad publicity. Thus everything got swept under the rug.

Some other parts in Legion are stupid, but I think this part made sense.

[clevin]

I know this sucks, but there's a valid reason why this part of the story is known only to a few. Half of SI:7 was compromised, the blunder resulted in massive loss of troops, death of the king and the warchief. While eventually the situation was resolved by the uncrowned. This is hardly something Alliance would want to advertise. This is even more spicy if your character is horde, as you infiltrate Stormwind and save Alliance from the rogue SI:7 agents. This is bad publicity. Thus everything got swept under the rug.

Some other parts in Legion are stupid, but I think this part made sense.

Except in game I'm one of 12 CLASS LEADERS. A confidant and right hand of Khadgar and the Council. For my character never to hear this is silly. But it goes beyond this - there's a lot of stuff like this that very few people will ever really get to know because I'd bet that most people only play a handful of classes.

[Shakou]

this is one of the things I hate most about Legion... Players who don't play a rogue would never know this. I get the idea of having various classes know things first but knowing things exclusively fragments the story.

I think Legion did a poor job of bringing those stories together into a cohesive whole, but anyone with half a working braincell knows that you do not in fact understand the story of Legion until you've either palyed through or at least looked into all of the Class Hall Campaigns.

People who do not know this but insist they know what's up about the Legion Lore (particularly the Broken Shore scenario we are referring to here) are just too lazy to do a little googling (and it's very little effort to find a video or text read out of all the Call Hall Campaigns) or too arrogant to admit they are ever wrong, so naturally Genn Greymane is their hero I suppose.

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I know this sucks, but there's a valid reason why this part of the story is known only to a few.

Ya, what's what? People are too lazy to browse wowpedia, wowhead, youtube, or read threads before commenting on them?

See you're just bringing up a whole other factor to why dumbass rumors persist on these boards. People do one quest, watch one video and assume they know everything about something in the game, even to the degree of disregarding anything from the game that contradicts this.

This discussion isn't about the actual story of Legion (although point out what that story is certainly helps) so much as it's about people not actually knowing what the story actually is but thinking that they do. You do not have to actually play all of these classes to know the full story.

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Except in game I'm one of 12 CLASS LEADERS. A confidant and right hand of Khadgar and the Council. For my character never to hear this is silly. But it goes beyond this - there's a lot of stuff like this that very few people will ever really get to know because I'd bet that most people only play a handful of classes.

This is exactly where Blizzard screwed up. After the Broken Shore the Order Halls should have convened a council to plan out their next step and then some of these details could have come to light, would have been very simple to do that and would have resulted in a better overall story. Instead they just set the Order Halls story aside entirely and created this huge narrative mess.

There should have been a 7.2.2 patch where we have that council meeting and after much discussion about what to do with the huge portal to Argus, which could be a threat to us as well because the portal also goes from Argus to us, we decide to build the Vindicaar and take the fight directly to them. They could have tied up a lot of loose narrative ends this way, the way things ended up happening was kind of sloppy to be honest.

It would be nice for once if we all got actual variety class-by-class in the leveling experience but the story were still cohesive.

[clevin]

I think Legion did a poor job of bringing those stories together into a cohesive whole, but anyone with half a working braincell knows that you do not in fact understand the story of Legion until you've either palyed through or at least looked into all of the Class Hall Campaigns.

People who do not know this but insist they know what's up about the Legion Lore (particularly the Broken Shore scenario we are referring to here) are just too lazy to do a little googling (and it's very little effort to find a video or text read out of all the Call Hall Campaigns) or too arrogant to admit they are ever wrong, so naturally Genn Greymane is their hero I suppose.

Sure, I know that. But I shouldn't have to play 12 characters all the way through the class campaign to get the story or go read about it on WoWhead, etc. They could have worked around this with some quest etc where even though I don't know about it as it happens I learn about it somehow, later.