Page 19 of 19 FirstFirst ...
9
17
18
19
  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanbane View Post
    I like the holy power system, but I don't think that it has good synergy with a colossus smash debuff style of play (the current judgment debuff). This comment will be very similar to many others i've posted both here and on the blizzard forums, but I strongly dislike the current playstyle. I think the judgment redesign was a mistake, the rotation was overly simplified with no variation based on single target or aoe, and that our cooldown doesn't vary that beyond things hitting harder and slightly faster.

    I loved the talent balance in MoP, there were many points where divine purpose, holy avenger, and sanctified wrath all simmed very close to each other, so people could choose based on whether they wanted burst, rng, more ranged attacks via hammer of wrath during wings, etc. It brought variety while staying balanced. WoD took that to a further level which was also enjoyable, the synergy between those choices and the new ones (especially final verdict) made for a playstyle that rewarded good decision making while allowing choice for those who wanted it.

    I have mained ret for many years, and was one of the few who stuck through it with the major revamp in legion prepatch. I am glad that they have moved on from some of the simpler mistakes such as having divine intervention and our only movement cd on the same talent tier (e.g. making steed baseline). I also liked the shift from hammer of the righteous to divine hammer, not needing a target in front of us to do aoe was a positive change. So the changes haven't been all bad. But we lost our execution ability, we lost several holy power generators, and we lost the dps talent choices that simmed comparably yet varied the rotation in unique ways. We also lost mobility options (having 0 baseline at expac launch, and currently mobility and survivability are on the same talent tier). And we gained the judgment debuff (colossus smash) playstyle, despite the heavily criticism when fury warriors had it during MoP. Overall what the spec lost was more than what it gained, both in terms of choice and interesting rotation. Legion ret was a negative change that I hope is reverted or different for next expansion.
    Pretty much this. I have been playing ret since the BC era and I have always loved playing Retribution over any other spec and my sense of loyalty to the spec kept me from swapping mains to anothe class. I was very skepticle when I first heard that our mastery was being changed from the WoD to the Legion version, though I don't remember why they had to switch our mastery in the first place. Was it because it was too strong of a mastery? There are plenty of other masteries from other specs that do the same thing, add % damage to whatever assortment of spells and abilities, so why were we the only ones to be chagned? Oh well. Also, with the loss of Ashes to Ashes, the HP generation needs to be compensated in some way to make up for the artifact ability.

  2. #362
    Personally, in the context of "limited design changes between now and 9.0", I'd like to see DH go baseline. Let it share a cooldown with BoJ. I hate having to spec AOE/ST.

    I'd find a way to bring back old FV talent where TV/DS empower off each other and FV gets 10yd range. Maybe when it's empowered bring back the old DS animation and keep the tornados for regular DS.

    Maybe if they wanted to use Consecration in a meaningful capacity they could tie the Liadrin's Legendary Ring effect into it, gain X Holy Power every Y second while standing in Consecration. Make a talent row directly tied to it:

    • Increased radius
    • Make it follow you, but reduces gain by Z amount
    • Give a second charge, increase CD from say 30s to 45s.

    Now if I want to reach a little further than 'limited design changes" I'd like to see Hammer of Wrath brought back. Give us a secondary resource called Wrath. Caps at 100. Builds off everything we do and let us spend it on Hammer of Wrath. Remove Mana, buff healing stuff and tie it to Wrath. Maybe have HoW reduce the CD of Avenging Wrath by X seconds (or if in AW increase duration by Y seconds).

    It would take roughly 25s to hit 100 Wrath, so one could expect a HoW cast roughly every 25s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khrux View Post
    I'd still gladly take a resource where you build up holy power(0-100) and can toggle it on or off to enter a rapidly power draining "form" or "stance", unlike Spriests where you fight to stay in it, you just toggle it on or off at will to avoid waste. It doesn't even need to change your appearance (although super saiyan comes to mind) but could make you gain a burning damage aura and your single target abilities deal X burning over time. I dunno, quick thoughts.
    I think that when people say oh Spriests have that we can't that's a bad stance to hold. I think it's good to have SOME overlap (not identical) between different core gameplay experiences. I.e. a melee DPS that has a similar resource to a ranged isn't a bad thing IMO. When 2 melee feel too similar (i.e. arms war/Ret) I think that's bad form. I also happen to think some overlap with priest is even a good thing given class fantasy.

    Your suggestion is near identical to the build I created and posted here a few months ago. The core premise was building Wrath (a 0-100 resource) that you would spend at 100 to enter Avenging Wrath. In Avenging Wrath you had fully empowered and new abilities.

    It's not without a half a dozen flaws for sure, but if you wanted to read it, it's here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...bilities-etc-)

    My goal was to bring back some old abilities while differentiated our play from of current schema. I was informed that my build was closely akin to Spriests (which again I have no issues with given the core differences + class fantasy), but that it also had a fair amount of overlap with DH's, which I do have an issue with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khrux View Post
    There is also potential to borrow more concepts from D3 Crusader like:
    1. Falling Sword as an additional mobility/aoe tool - Jump into the air, creating a movable zone on the ground that you crash down on after a delay dealing aoe dmg/stun (warrior has charge + leap, let pala have horsey + falling sword)

    Or

    2. Heaven's Fury (similar to Artanis in HotS) where you call down a pillar of light on a target dealing damage over its duration, which follows the target as it moves (Gives Ret some ST damage over time)
    While I like the idea behind Falling Sword it has some issues. How long would the delay be? Would you be invulnerable while you're up in the air? Would you need a target to use or could it be used as an escape/re-position tool as well? How long would the cooldown be?

    I'm not opposed to a Heaven's Fury type of skill, but I do think some other classes have "pillar of light" kind of abilities, could be worth hashing out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobaman View Post
    Return 2-3 of ye olde seals, dgaf which ones, and allow Judgment to proc a bonus effect on a target based on the active seal. Allow seals to be toggled, minor buffs that become what is now a Blessing when Judged. One of the seals when Judged can proc immediate bonus damage or even a fecking stacking debuff that deals major damage when stacked to X. One of the other seals Judges in AoE and allows next X seconds of damage or next X number of abilities to proc in AoE at Y % value; with minor particle effects so we don't hear an excuse about how "visually busy" or some shit the spec is with extra stuff.
    Personally, I hated seals (except Martyr/Blood). I ESPECIALLY hate the idea of "toggle for ST or AOE" that you're suggesting here. While this is currently how the game herds us, I don't think it's good design.

  3. #363
    I think they should stop being such chickens when it comes to radical game design changes. I wish they'd give ret abilities that did damage based on taking damage and funneling damage from others. It would be great if we had powerful DPS cooldowns that mitigated tank damage and re-directed a portion of it to the target, sort of like the backlash totem in essence. THe fact that ret doesn't have Falling Sword is just stupid - c'mon, it's friggin' cool just give it to them.

    Blizz clearly does not want ret to be a great class. I suspect because it's a dps spec with an immunity that has historically been easy to play and very, very widespread. I think the last thing they want to do is make such a huge portion of the player base suddenly do great DPS, be fun to play, and have an immunity and utility. If they did, ret would account for too much of the population. As a result, I think they intentionally keep ret kinda bad and boring.

  4. #364
    Stood in the Fire
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Canada, Northern Ontario (the French part)
    Posts
    458
    Welp, with the new 2pc I've been actually seeing a marked increase in my output so that's a thing...

    Now, I also know that a lot of people are seemingly happy with Celestalon leaving WoW for class balance reasons, would that reasonably even have an impact on Ret? It seems mostly like Warlocks and Shamans that are happy to see him go.

  5. #365
    So, can we call Legion a glorius success for anyone who played Ret, and what's in it for 8.0?

  6. #366
    Herald of the Titans Vintersol's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Germoney
    Posts
    2,817
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    So, can we call Legion a glorius success for anyone who played Ret, and what's in it for 8.0?
    sure as sure
    It's high noon.
    Personality: INTJ

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyr View Post
    sure as sure
    Oh, you didn't

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Karzerus View Post
    I liked Judgment back when it interacted with our Seals and did different things depending on which Seal you had. They don't have to put that system back in, but a general idea like that is actually cool.

    To me, being a Ret means being infused with holy power, and do want to get that Super Saiyan feel like the previous page post mentioned. Being suffused with Holy Light temporarily sounds awesome as fuck.


    Going to get shit for this but I miss empowered seals. I did really well with it & to me if made playing feel smoother. I know the reasons why people dislike it. For them it made playing feel awkward. The ole "If you need a special macro to make a talent feel playable then it's a shit talent" argument and It didn't always sim the best. But to me it was the least boring talent at the time and made me feel like I was actually doing something, not sure how to word it correctly but I felt like I was involved with my dps/playstyle. I miss that and seraphim. I feel bored atm with ret like I'm waiting on procs, waiting on people to die so I can shine more and just feel like I'm not in control of my own playstyle.



    I really dislike the class changing every expac. People bitched during highmaul and BRF but that's where I felt I had the most fun. In fact at that time it felt like we had a choice with our talents. I like it when blizzard get's the talents correct where no matter what talent you choose you can have fun and say "screw the sims."
    Last edited by Yardu; 2017-12-10 at 08:22 PM.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    I'm feeling a bit confused.

    "2-piece bonus now increases the damage of Judgment by 40% (was 60%)."

    It's already a tier set that is a lot more slower and boring than the previous tier (which made our spec a lot smoother), why tossing out nerfs on the set bonus? ;_:
    I think I might know why. It hits SUPER SUPER hard with proper gear. Right now im sitting at 952 not fully optimized for Judgment damage/mastery. The Antorus gear provides a lot of proper stats on it's pieces and there are 3x Judge relics in there that you can use to fish for AW. Judgment right now is almost beating Templar's Verdict in damage w/cloak and ring + FV talent. Right now im at like 25% crit, 30% haste and 65% mastery. Paired with Greater Judgment its doing work. I wish they didnt nerf it, I want hammer to hit harder. But right now honestly this tier set and the way stats/trinkets work this by far is the most fun I have had on my ret all expansion because now the mechanic works because of obscene ilvls of gear + a tier set thats actually really good.

    I would go as far as saying the Aman'thul trinket in the long term is going to be amazing and you should probably start fishing for that 910+ arcanocyrstal to pair with it. Not saying that Khaz'goroth's and Seeping is bad. They are really good but long term I can see Aman/Arcano coming out on top.

  10. #370
    Stood in the Fire
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Canada, Northern Ontario (the French part)
    Posts
    458
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulthane View Post
    I think I might know why. It hits SUPER SUPER hard with proper gear. Right now im sitting at 952 not fully optimized for Judgment damage/mastery. The Antorus gear provides a lot of proper stats on it's pieces and there are 3x Judge relics in there that you can use to fish for AW. Judgment right now is almost beating Templar's Verdict in damage w/cloak and ring + FV talent. Right now im at like 25% crit, 30% haste and 65% mastery. Paired with Greater Judgment its doing work. I wish they didnt nerf it, I want hammer to hit harder. But right now honestly this tier set and the way stats/trinkets work this by far is the most fun I have had on my ret all expansion because now the mechanic works because of obscene ilvls of gear + a tier set thats actually really good.

    I would go as far as saying the Aman'thul trinket in the long term is going to be amazing and you should probably start fishing for that 910+ arcanocyrstal to pair with it. Not saying that Khaz'goroth's and Seeping is bad. They are really good but long term I can see Aman/Arcano coming out on top.
    Yep, I'm seeing a marked increase in my damage output since getting my 2 pc and running, Belt/Highlord's, Greater Judgement, swapping a few things to Mastery/Haste, and running my 4pc tier 20. That 2pc bonus is rocking it even at 40%, I can understand the nerf. I'm finally actually hitting some high points in the meters versus my other guildies now who are running classes that have been much better than Ret all expac. Depending on the fight obviously, and my initial burst is the best in our guild right now too, by a higher margin than it's ever been. It's nothing amazing, mind-you, I'm still far from the best DPS in our roster, but at least I'm not the worst anymore, and all this is with only between 40-45 percent Mastery and zero Judgement relics, so it should get stronger as I re-optimize gear.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by xxcloud417xx View Post
    Yep, I'm seeing a marked increase in my damage output since getting my 2 pc and running, Belt/Highlord's, Greater Judgement, swapping a few things to Mastery/Haste, and running my 4pc tier 20. That 2pc bonus is rocking it even at 40%, I can understand the nerf. I'm finally actually hitting some high points in the meters versus my other guildies now who are running classes that have been much better than Ret all expac. Depending on the fight obviously, and my initial burst is the best in our guild right now too, by a higher margin than it's ever been. It's nothing amazing, mind-you, I'm still far from the best DPS in our roster, but at least I'm not the worst anymore, and all this is with only between 40-45 percent Mastery and zero Judgement relics, so it should get stronger as I re-optimize gear.
    Yea for sure. Atm im running cloak + highlords but im wondering if Belt + Highlords would end up better long term.

  12. #372
    Stood in the Fire
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Canada, Northern Ontario (the French part)
    Posts
    458
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulthane View Post
    Yea for sure. Atm im running cloak + highlords but im wondering if Belt + Highlords would end up better long term.
    Belt+Highlord's is only better if you're running 4-set plus 2-set together since the cloak takes up a tier slot. Otherwise, Cloak+Highlord's should be better with only 4 tier pieces on. You'll have to sim though, but Cloak+Highlord's is still the best combo, it's just the tier set juggling that makes belt a better option.

    This right here though is the no. 1 reason I'm ecstatic about the announcement of no tier sets next expac.
    Last edited by xxcloud417xx; 2017-12-12 at 12:19 AM.

  13. #373
    Oh yea, i never dealt in that multi tier crap. I shouldn't have to farm old content for relevant pieces. So i said screw it.

  14. #374
    High Overlord
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Hungary - Budapest
    Posts
    197
    So, do you think worth to drop 915s T20 pieces (no luck on WF/TF at all) for 2 pieces of T21 with some off-Tiers?

    Last time I checked it was not an increase to me, but used Belt + Liadrin Ring. If planning to use only 4 set of T21 and abonden T20 what Legendary combo is the best you think?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •