Cataclysm Class & Mastery Systems Update

[Ragnarocket]

Geez, so many changes lately o.O

Will we be using every point in the tree we are speced into? As a resto shaman I can see 31 points being all necessary stuff...this is gonna feel bloated in a whole different way imo :/

[frank2312]

omg thats so fail i hate that change WTF

Explain why you hate it, and we will talk about it...

[jimlow]

Damn I feel like I just got a boot to the head.

[flairy]

I might be in the minority...but I don't really give a flying @#$! about any of this since I canceled my account yesterday. It probably would have been an exciting and intriguing bit of news had I not been so angered with the news of Real ID linking my online life to my professional life.

[ThunderBlunder]

The talent trees now are lame and static. With alots of filler talents, no one reads the bonuses or anything. You find a specc from some website, and you choose those talents like a robot.

This is a much appriciated change.

^this

[Pojodan]

I like this for the following reason:

In a given class' talent trees currently there are 3-5 talents that actually alter the way the class is played. I'm a Combat Rogue, so I'll use that as an example.

Adrenaline Rush, Blade Fury, Killing Spree, non-dagger, fast off-hand/slow main-hand. Those are what define combat rogue.

31 points means 7 tiers, if they keep with the 5-points-per-tier model.

With 5 talents that define the class, that leaves only 2 tiers with filler talents, making each step up the talent tree all the more thrilling.

Also, it opens up the realm for a lot wider talent trees for more 'filler', but lots of possibilities.


I can see there being three different groups of 'filler' talents that populate every tier: Damage Mitigation, Damage Evasion, Utility

Say I'm in a guild with 3 other combat rogues. At present, only one of us is bringing anything unique to the raid, the rest are just plain DPS. I perform average in dealing with boss encounter challenges, one other rogue dies constantly, and the other is flawless.

I would thusly spec myself for Damage Evasion, talents that make me move faster or let me escape one insta-death per boss fight, or talents of that nature for my occational slip-ups. The second rogue would spec in Damage Mitigation, talents that reduce AoE damage, lessen big damage hits so they aren't insta-death, and slow DoT effects, letting the healers keep them alive a lot more easily despite their poor performance. The last rogue would spec utility as, since they can be trusted to move to the right spot and do the right things, they can be the one that improves the raid with extra physical damage debuffs, extra threat redirection, extended smoke cloud duration, things of that nature.

Of course there will be min/maxing by selecting all the utility talents, but it opens up extra leway for less skillful players to survive better, as well as giving options for guilds struggling with boss fights to re-spec into survival-oriented talents across the board so that learning a difficult fight is less stressful.

Here's hoping it works that way.

[Butterbumps]

This is really the only way they can give out spec-defining abilities from the start. Without this restriction, what's to keep someone from (for example) saying they are an enhancement shaman to get dual wield and then putting all their points into elemental or resto? This new system is kinda like a loan: "we'll give you top-tier abilities from the start, but only if you promise to actually spend enough points eventually to qualify for those abilities".

This is an excellent way of putting it. Giving out some of the cool and iconic abilities earlier (along with better quests) will really improve the leveling experience, especially early on.

[EvenMoreMacigalCrabs]

And hold on, you have to max out one tree before selecting another?
Bye bye interesting/situational hybrid specs then.

[Deleted]

It's hilarious that people think this will somehow stop cookie cutter specs. Some talents will always be better than others, there's no way around it.

[zorg]

This seems crazy at first, but locking you into the tree to start, its actually brilliant, instead of tucking away "cool" abilities at the bottom of a tree you can be fun from the start, potentially no more, enhance shammy sucking until level 40 when they get far enough down for dual wield.

Alltho they are redoing the talent trees and nothing is finalised atm, things subject to be moved around...this would suck balls for ele and resto shaman not being able to access Ancestral knowledge and thundering strikes...utter balls!

[Fcdwn777]

It seems that a lot of people that disagree with this change did not read the whole post and/or put words into Blizz's mouth. I think this is an amazing change. Leveling a new character has never been very exciting skill wise. I mean, once you hit level 10, a lot of classes only had choices to start putting talents into the "Increases the damge you do with x by x%". BORING. When you level a toon talent points are only exciting if you are putting them into a fun talent, which many of them are not atm. Our talent trees are bloated and need to be trimmed down. I heard someone say something to the effect of "I used to look forward to spending talents points each time I level and now I will get nothing!" Well, this is not true at all. They said they are going to alternate getting new skills and talent points. And if we are honest, most of the time new abilities are more interesting then a talent point to increase your damage by 1%.

But you are still going to be getting talent points every other level that will be more meaningful then they ever were. As far as Blizz forcing you to go down one tree till 70, it seems this is mainly done for new players. Sure there is more freedom at the moment to spec however you want, but imagine how this can be for new players. SO many options with no real guidance as what to do. Correctly spent talents can be the difference between a great leveling experience and a bad one. I welcome this change also and cant wait to actually have fun and meaningful abilities at level 10. I mean, shadow step and lava lash at leve 10? How awesome is that? And it totally makes leveling a character much more engaging and playable. Kudos to Blizz on making this much needed change. People need to realize that more does not equal better.

On another note, I saw someone say that now you just have to sit back and watch the talent trees fill themselves out? WTF? Did you even read the post? It said nothing of the kind in there, you will still have to choose all your talents. You will just be restricted to one tree until level 70. And people are actually claiming that trimming the fat from our bloated talent trees and making points more meaningful and exciting is catering to casuals? If making my low level toons more fun to play by giving them things like shield slam and mutilate is catering to casuals, bring on the casuals then.

[DrJones]

So instead of the "boring" trees we have now, we will have the same boring trees, just with less stuff... and everything will be the same, even though they say they want it to be in depth and all.

I have a faint glimmer of hope, that this won't fail as I expect it to.
This doesn't make anything more in depth, it makes it simpler, this doesn't make talent trees more amazing and fun, it makes them simpler (it only makes them more fun, while... leveling).

There is a abyssimal slight chance you will actually have to choose between multiple awesome abilities, but since they said it won't really change rotations etc. it will only become... less talents, doing the same stuff as now.... but why?


The first time I read this I honestly wondered to myself: "But today isn't the first of april, or is it?"

[Endler89]

Blizzard is making me happy. This change seems like it will make leveling toons a lot more fun. No more waiting to hit 40 to be decent. Can't wait i might have to make a second account to lvl more toons for fun.

Combine this with the real id where you have to take responosibility with what you official forum post Blizzard finally got some changes that I completely back. I'm now looking forward to Cata more and more. That real id is awesome can't wait for all the trolls that don't want to be named quitting game cause they can't anonymously post on the official forums.

[lawladino]

This is the stupidest thing, talk about lazy, "We can't balance things so we are making talent trees smaller."

Thats what I got from this hah. Even with this change they still wont be able to balance every class.

[kratos23]

can we have now elite npc's in the world back, please? leveling is not only boring with bullshit talents, but also when it's too easy. so easy that you fall asleep while questing.

[EvenMoreMacigalCrabs]

The "selecting a specialisation" feature is a good one, I don't think many people are arguing against that, but the cutting of half the talent trees is a lazy solution to a minor problem, and goes against what Blizzard originally stated their design philosophy was for Cataclysm (more diversity/freedom in specs).

Obviously we'll have to wait to see how they look to judge for sure, but in general removing content rather than fixing it is never a popular decision.

[writhe666]

I guess it could work out alright if they take out all the "+x% damage" blah blah blah talents, and just keep the ones that matter like your main skills, and they keep some utility ones on the side, like the speedy bubble from a priest's Holy tree...

Not a huge fan of the "being locked into a talent tree until 70" part, but oh well, that's the only way they can give you the new mastery bonuses without you exploiting all 3 trees...

[Fcdwn777]

So instead of the "boring" trees we have now, we will have the same boring trees, just with less stuff... and everything will be the same, even though they say they want it to be in depth and all.

I have a faint glimmer of hope, that this won't fail as I expect it to.
This doesn't make anything more in depth, it makes it simpler, this doesn't make talent trees more amazing and fun, it makes them simpler (it only makes them more fun, while... leveling).

There is a abyssimal slight chance you will actually have to choose between multiple awesome abilities, but since they said it won't really change rotations etc. it will only become... less talents, doing the same stuff as now.... but why?


The first time I read this I honestly wondered to myself: "But today isn't the first of april, or is it?"

Where are all in the post that is says that all they are doing is cutting out the boring talents and keeping the same talent trees? What I got from the post is that they will be overhauling the talent trees like they said they were doing anyways and giving us new talents and new abilites, and trimming the useless fat off the talent trees. Nowhere does it say we will have the same trees we have now with nothing added, only things removed.

[s0rk]

Awesome, many big changes in this xpack. Love it, will be like playing a whole new game. And thats great cuz I was just getting fed up with everything being the same. Thumbs up!

[elrenno]

I'm not sure I like this at all. When I see that I have to pick a specialization at level 10, and I'm stuck with it until 70, that just means I'm pigeon holed into a static spec.

What I would rather see is the ability to custom tailor a spec with abilities that I want. Sure, get rid of the useless abilities and junk no one uses. But let me be the type of warrior I want to be. Let me pick and choose abilities from different trees. Let me hybridize a cross between being a protection and a fury warrior (if I so choose).

I don't see this at all as allowing people to make talent choices "that feel more flavorful and fun, yet more meaningful at the same time." If each tree is just 31 points, that means you have to take everything in a tree. No picking and choosing. I really think that's what is needed. Like this, as a fury warrior, I'll be just like every other fury warrior.