Cataclysm Class & Mastery Systems Update

[Vasz]

How about giving Arcane mages an arcane spell other than arcane missile to level with?

[Elixor]

It just seems a step backwards to me. We went from having "more choice" and "more builds" to EVERYONE having the same talents.

Quite possible... Tho, there isn´t so many different choices now anyway. To max things that is.

[Cathaenia]

Does that also mean the Real ID that they workd on for "a very long time" was also 100% win?

I can't say. I'll get back to you a few months after its implementation.

[origosis]

Duuude! I'm excited to give it a try!

I personally LOVE the idea, cause just this morning I was prepping a POST for the WoW Suggestion forum about something very similiar. Less talents, and stats that change based on a characters role.

oh.. Hi MMO Champ! been reading for months, but this is my first POST! Love this place!

[The Little One]

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I adore the idea that we get to choose a "specialization" at the beginning so we actually feel like we are what we chose. Instead of spending one talent point and being like, "Well, I can't even tell if it did anything..."

However, what's with being locked out until we spend the 31 talent points? I don't like this. If there are only 31 talents in that tree, does that mean we are picking up everything? One thing I loved about talent trees is that they allowed there to be diversity between different play styles, a little wiggle room.

I also liked being able to pick up a few talents in another tree before fulling decking out my main tree in some cases. Some times its just more useful. Don't all priests, even if you decide to level in a smite/holy tree, pick up Spirit Tap for less down time? I can't see them putting "identical" talents in these trees to make up for it.

I like the new mastery concept, I'm not so sure about how they're executing some things though.

[Kabasue]

Going to have to wait and see on this one, it could go eather way for me. Mutulate at lvl 10 seems like a good idea in one way, but not haveing as many points goes the other.

[MasterHamster]

I hate those who keeps shouting about the game being dumbed down. How the fuck is this dumbing the game down? Improving the fun of levelling, making you not having to level 50-60 levels to get a defining skill?

[bbr]

In short, they couldn't find a way to balance the bonus effects that the tree masteries were giving.
So they decided to put them onto gear.

It, hopefully will also negatively affect twinks, as you can no longer grab a little bit of this, and a little bit of that and then be awesome. You're either dealing damage, or healing, or tanking, not both.

[Cyraneth]

Hmm, for Rogues this kinda sucks: You only get Mutilate if you specialize in Assassination, and you only get Dual Wield Specialization if you specialize in Combat. Tough luck.

[Merodium]

Soooooo...
They want to add more "depth" by making smaller trees? (i c wut u did thar). Kek.

Essentially what he's trying to say is...
We will have 20 talents we are FORCED to take, as they are "unique"... But what about the remaining 11 talents?
Won't they be plain? Won't they have to be?
Everyone agrees "unique" means special, one of a kind, etc., to that specific tree.
So "unique" talents will affect the way you play that spec...
Then the remaining 11 in the specific tree will sort of have to be plain and add flat bonuses, since they can't affect the rotation, etc.

So essentially they just merged some talents, gave us smaller trees, and forced us to spec...

[Mem]

However, what's with being locked out until we spend the 31 talent points? I don't like this. If there are only 31 talents in that tree, does that mean we are picking up everything? One thing I loved about talent trees is that they allowed there to be diversity between different play styles, a little wiggle room.

First, I'd imagine there to be a minimum of 41 talent points in each tree (since that's the max you get at 85). Also that 'wiggle room' is where most new wow players fall behind and the casual gets kicked because despite his gear, he has no clue how to spec. The diversity between play styles will come down to how well the player plays his/her class for once.

[Butterbumps]

A lot of people are saying things like "I love how they're giving out powerful abilities at level 10, but I hate that you're locked in to one talent tree until later". The thing is, they can ONLY give out the cool, spec-specific abilities early BECAUSE you are committed to that spec. Otherwise you could go to your trainer as a level 10 shaman, for example, and pick Elemental to get Thunderstorm and whatever passives you get, but put all your points in Enhancement.

You can't have it both ways.

[bluesprite_83]

Next thing we'll hear about is how it will be a hybrid with a first person shooter... type... thing

R.I.P. SWG-NGE

[fenixblade]

everyone has the same specs now anyways... min/maxing has taken over raiding... stop whining about being unique, you're not. In-fact, most of you probably have the best possible spec for your talent tree... if you don't, you're a unique idiot.

[_Khasim_]

To people that think it means everyone will have the same talents - let me explain it to you.
Currently, the talents that require 50 points are the lowest ones in the trees, meaning to get them you have to use 51 talent points. But, when you do spend them, do you also spend ALL of the points on ALL of the talents? No, you do not, that would be idiotic. This will stay the same - there will be numerous talents in each row, and you'll have to choose some from that row to progress into another, JUST LIKE NOW.
English is not my native language and I might've screwed something up, but this drawing explains what I mean.

Say we have a
TALENT TREE
A B C D -row of talents
A B C D -row of talents
A B C D -row of talents
A B C D -row of talents
A B C D -row of talents
A B C D -row of talents
A B C D -row of talents

Now, to progress to the next tier, you can max out talent A first, then B, then D, then A again, then C, then D, then B. But you can also go AAAAACD or AABCDCB or whatever.
Of course, I doubt that each tier will have 4+ talents to choose from, but it's certainly NOT going to only have one each - perhaps only the last one. Cancel that, it makes no sense. Blizz said "no boring talents" and puting 5 points into a non-boring talent seems to have not much sence - unless it's going to be like "put one point into talent A so you can have an awesome proc X, but each point into talent A will make the awesome proc X proc faster". I think we're going to see way more talents in a tier than we have now...

[Vasz]

First, I'd imagine there to be a minimum of 41 talent points in each tree (since that's the max you get at 85). Also that 'wiggle room' is where most new wow players fall behind and the casual gets kicked because despite his gear, he has no clue how to spec. The diversity between play styles will come down to how well the player plays his/her class for once.

The talent trees have 31 points EACH and you gain 41 talent points TOTAL

Next thing i see will be "pay to ding 80"

[darkwarrior42]

To people that think it means everyone will have the same talents - let me explain it to you.
Currently, the talents that require 50 points are the lowest ones in the trees, meaning to get them you have to use 51 talent points. But, when you do spend them, do you also spend ALL of the points on ALL of the talents? No, you do not, that would be idiotic. This will stay the same - there will be numerous talents in each row, and you'll have to choose some from that row to progress into another, JUST LIKE NOW.
English is not my native language and I might've screwed something up, but this drawing explains what I mean.

*snip*

Now, to progress to the next tier, you can max out talent A first, then B, then D, then A again, then C, then D, then B. But you can also go AAAAACD or AABCDCB or whatever.
Of course, I doubt that each tier will have 4+ talents to choose from, but it's certainly NOT going to only have one each - perhaps only the last one.

A B C D

This is exactly what I'm expecting. Picture the talent trees from classic wow; those terminated in 31-point talents, and not everyone had every talent then just to get to the bottom.

The feeling I get is: There were originally 31-point talent trees. With the last two expansions, we've gained another 4 tiers in each tree, and numerous talents; let's say an average of 10 talents per tree was gained over the course of two expansions. Now, they're looking to cut out 10 talents per tree, so we're back to the original number... only instead of cutting out the new talents they added, they're cutting out all the "increases damage of XXXX by ##%" and "reduces duration of XXX by ## sec" style talents, so that there is just the functional stuff left. At least, that's what it sounds like they're describing to me.

What i find interesting is that with only 41 talent points at level 85, a typical build layout might be 31/10/0, fewer points than you had even in classic.

[tusker]

The talent trees have 31 points EACH and you gain 41 talent points TOTAL

Next thing i see will be "pay to ding 80"

once again....

having a 31 point talent =/= 31 talent points per tree

[Mem]

For reference: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...aman-Cataclysm

ELEMENTAL SHAMAN
Reverberation (-CD)
Elemental Focus (+clearcasting)
Elemental Mastery (+crit/+haste)
Elemental Reach (+range)
Elemental Precision (+hit)
Lightning Mastery (-cast time~haste)
Storm,Earth,Fire (-CD+root)
Elemental Oath (+raidbuff)
Earthquake (+knockdown)
Astral Shift (-CC duration)
Thunderstorm (+knockback)

Everything else in the tree is +%dmg or +%crit or +%haste...so with passive or mastery increases those things, the tree is otherwise empty so making the trees have ~41 talent points won't be too difficult without all that fluff.

[Unferth]

I'd like to see you trying to balance it.

Its not our full time job to balance trees. Their are people at Blizzard WoW division who get paid to spend 40 hours a week doing nothing but talent trees. If that was my job, I assure you I would be able to balance the trees.


Also locking people out of the other 2 talent trees is stupid, stop catering to newbs so much, because you might lose your established player base.