Tired of bad players, where is the logic? I mean wth.

[Clockwork Pinkie]

So I needed to vent and figured I'd turn it into something slightly more than omgomgwthwtfnoobs.

Right, I entered FoS heroic today, another daily nothing new, druid who is the healer spots me having aggro and starts raging. I simply tell him there is nothing I can do about it, I use my stun on the one I get aggro from, use my salvation and divine shield every cd. I start fights with concecration then judgement (of command at the time later righteousness because the tank really can't keep aggro) so as you can see I start with the least possible threat output (and dps but I linger around 6.5-7k so) I then notice the rogue doesnt use tricks of the trade on our tank and that the tank doesnt use pestilence and I get a bit buthurt. Because I've been listening to this druid going on about how much a noob I am because I get aggro. So I said to the druid:

If you're going to place blame why not do it on the death knight who doesn't use any aoe threat appart from death and decay? Or the rogue who can't be bothered to use tricks of the trade even when the tank has threat problems?

I then get called a jerk, a noob and get kicked, all this while the rogue does 3100 and the mage 2900.

Now I've experience things like this SO many times why do people forsake all logic? I mean why is it so natural to blame a dps for getting aggro? When 90% of the time it's the tanks fault and he can/could easily fight it with a well placed taunt if it happens? both my paladin, my druid and my warrior are tanks, many people claim it's OH-SO-HARD to tank and that it's always the dps' fault if they get aggro.

So my question has come to this, why do the community accept baddies so much? Is it because it can indentify itself with them or what? I really don't get it.

pah venting..

Basically the healer doesn't want someone to rage for getting aggro and dieing and does that to avoid the "wtf no heals?" Argument which would then get him kicked, so whoever gets aggro first, dies first, doesn't do their job, is at risk of being kicked out. Has nothing to do with being bad, good, or in the middle, just douche bags being douche bags, or healers that don't want to heal, or tanks that don't want to tank, or dps that don't want to dps. So when you called the other people out, they did the same exact thing and called you out for no reason, just to "get back" at you, when clearly, from what I'm reading, it's the tanks fault. It happens though, but with 6-7k dps the mob should be dead way before you are anyway.

[prototism]

^


So where did you pull this information from?

Dont get me wrong. There are a lot of good DKs in end game, just as there are good level 58 DKs. And some of the bad DKs become good, by 80.

But have you recently leveled through the 56-62 levels, via LFD? The majority of the tanks are DKs, and the majority of those DKs are terrible.

The reason new players roll DK is because it's a shortcut of practically 58 levels, since the DK starting area is so well put together, and able to be completed in an hour and a half or less.

As for hunters, well, they're an easy mode class too, so people new to the game (who are usually inherently bad, at least until if and when they learn) roll hunter.

There are tons of good hunters as well. I personally love my SV hunter, and I'm just okay. I could be much better. But I'm just a semi-serious, mostly casual player.

---------- Post added 2010-08-01 at 03:33 PM ----------

It has gotten to the point where if I zone in to Dire Maul, LBRS, Strath or Scholo, and it's a DK tank, I automatically assume it's going to be a wipe fest. But if it's a paladin or a warrior, I assume the player knows how to play the class and keep aggro. Right or wrong, generalizations come into existence for a reason; they are based on a reality.

[Dedweight]

Because being a newbie is completly unacceptable?

Being a newbie isn't unacceptable, being a noob however is completely different.

I'm fine if someones new to the game/instance and still learning their class role or whatever, they're still new to the game and more often than not are willing to take some criticism and try and adjust their play style accordingly. However someone that's leveled to 80 and has absolutely no clue as to how to play their class or fulfill the role they chose is completely different, you would think after 80 levels they would have some ability to play the class, I have little to no patience for people like that.

On topic: I was doing a Heroic Pit of Saron trying to get Rimefangs Blade for my newest tank, had run it at least once a day since I hit 80 two weeks ago with absolutely no issues(besides the occasional healer that couldn't keep me up for whatever reason) until just a few days ago when I encountered a Shaman healer and his DK buddy. Healer was in mostly ICC10 gear, DK was about the same, and I was in mostly 232 gear with a few 200 and 245 items nothing too horrible and definitely capable of chain pulling the instance with minimal difficulty.

Anyways we got past the first caster that patrols around on the right side of the entrance, killed the three Skeletons, and got to the two Protodrake patrols. Normally I skip the one closest to the instance entrance and go for the farthest one, which is what I attempted to do this run but the DK I'm guessing wasn't paying attention the patrol after I pulled the one and was aggroed and killed by it, being the tank I of course taunted it to hopefully prevent additional deaths and/or a wipe.

The wipe did happen so we all ran back to the instance to go again, we get all buffed up and ready to go when the healer calls me out for aggroing more than one mob at a time and calls me a bad tank for chain pulling and what not, the DK did admit fault for aggroing the other drake but the healer didn't seem to care. Thought that was an odd reaction seeing as most people seem to prefer chain pulling instances when possible and the fact the only pulls I don't see me capable of soloing in PoS were the Protodrake patrols(that "frost strike" debuff really hurts) and the groups up the hill(I can only use Spell Reflect like every 2-4 spells and have no way to remove the disease).

Needless to say I told the healer he should pay a little more attention to what actually happens when people die or look over the death logs before calling out the tank, or anyone for that matter, for being bad and left.

And to the others whose ignore lists are full: Seriously? Are you that much of a nitpicker/hater?

I only have one toon that has it's ignore list and that's my Priest on Illidan-US Horde and it's not because I'm a nitpicker or a hater. If you play on Illidan or have the ability to make an alt there and join trade you might be able to see why. To be honest I wish I could add more than the 50(?) or so I'm currently limited to.

[Sulf]

Google unlimited ignore list, does this need to repeated a 1000 times?

[Rhonen]

kinda hard to manage your threat when there are some tanks that you can out threat with just auto attacks sans of course just standing around like a wallflower for half of the dungeon

Or just leave the group, wait your time and requeue. Seriously, if the experience is that bad, leave. The druid was being a prick obviously, and you outgeared the tank (who also didn't use all of his available tools to prevent you from pulling). Why stick around when bad group is being bad?

Sure, you have to wait a while to get back into a group, but you might also save yourself some sanity that would otherwise have you coming here to "vent." You added to your own problem imo.

[draticus]

Google unlimited ignore list, does this need to repeated a 1000 times?

I'm not sure what you're getting at? You mean do we need to ask for unlimited ignore lists 1000 times? If so then yes I agree. We NEED unlimited ignore lists.

[Lilixer]

Over-aggro a tank in a heroic? Oh my stars...

My heroic / raid death count was really really high on my warlock. Couldn't be helped. But it was very fun to pop Meta Immo and SoC till I floor tanked something

Tanks would scream, but mostly the healers would just laugh, then i'd laugh and we'd all be happy

[Halicia]

Dont get me wrong. There are a lot of good DKs in end game, just as there are good level 58 DKs. And some of the bad DKs become good, by 80.

But have you recently leveled through the 56-62 levels, via LFD? The majority of the tanks are DKs, and the majority of those DKs are terrible.

...

[/COLOR]It has gotten to the point where if I zone in to Dire Maul, LBRS, Strath or Scholo, and it's a DK tank, I automatically assume it's going to be a wipe fest. But if it's a paladin or a warrior, I assume the player knows how to play the class and keep aggro. Right or wrong, generalizations come into existence for a reason; they are based on a reality.

and the reality is that its dps failure.
if you dont realize WHY you're having such problems in the levels you specify with DK tanks, then you're part of the problem.

With precious few exceptions (ie. boss mechanics), the taunts in 5mans should be reserved for the healer, and dps should be prepared to tank whatever they pull with braindead AoE's.

[aether99]

I look at it like this, if youve made it to 80 (actually leveled there) andstill do not know how your classes abilities work, uninstall wow.

this game is nto very hard.

[Om1]

I look at it like this, if youve made it to 80 (actually leveled there) andstill do not know how your classes abilities work, uninstall wow.

for a DPS this might be true, to some point, but for a tank or a healer that has quested from lvl 1-80 not so much for the simple matter that you have to work with someone else. or maybe you've even respecced to another tree. personally I level my druid from 15-80 as a tank. If I went kitty, resto or boomkin I would have no idea where to start.

I can only imagin myself if I where to tank a hc when I had just hit 80 with my first toon... I'm glad I was dps'ing

[Devlin1991]

few options that you have.

1) Queue as prot spec with prot gear

2) Queue as prot spec with Dps gear and if its a competent healer destroy the instance and embarass the random dps (this is what I do on my warrior)

3) Don't attack AT ALL for 5-6s then wander in and auto attack, its frustrating but they wont moan at your dps if your still doing 2-3k but not pulling aggro.

4) Pray you get a tank who understands that, as a tank, its your job to keep as much aggro as possible and that includes taunting mobs off of Better geared dps so that they can continue to pump out damage and make the run faster. Nothing bug's me more than tanks that see a mob running off at a range dps or a melee dps and don't taunt it spouting the "If you aggro you can tank it" crap that is just bad tanking, and an excuse for feeling Emasculated.


endnote: be happy your not a fury warrior in near bis gear. Even icc25 geared tanks have no hope keeping 4packs mobs on them without tricks/Md.

[Crumpet]

Some days you have good groups, other times you get idiots. Get over it, sometimes it's good to laugh over but I see no reason to get your knickers in a twist over one dungeon run that went wrong, there will be plenty more I'm afraid, but that's WoW for you.

[Falkus]

4) Pray you get a tank who understands that, as a tank, its your job to keep as much aggro as possible and that includes taunting mobs off of Better geared dps so that they can continue to pump out damage and make the run faster. Nothing bug's me more than tanks that see a mob running off at a range dps or a melee dps and don't taunt it spouting the "If you aggro you can tank it" crap that is just bad tanking, and an excuse for feeling Emasculated.

I will taunt once, even twice. Maybe even a third time. But if you (not you specifically, but y'know) continue to pull aggro on that ONE mob you are DPSing when others are dpsing the other, I WILL let it destroy you to make you bloody learn to follow the tank target.

endnote: be happy your not a fury warrior in near bis gear. Even icc25 geared tanks have no hope keeping 4packs mobs on them without tricks/Md.

Doubly so if you have a death knight in your group who insists on using the Army of the Dead as "a dps increase". At that point I just stop tanking and let the death knight have it. If he/she dies, all the better for the rest of the group.

[velde046]

Wow is paradise for scrubs nowadays. Just deal with it

Hell, maybe it is, but then again if the OP is such a good player he should know how to not take aggro anyway. I have played with bad tanks or learning tanks and would just give them a few seconds to build aggro. Then when I start I would still watch my aggro and throttle back if I seemm to take over. If this means that I'm doing less than 50 percent of my possible DPS, so be it. DPS task is to nuke the mobs/bosses without taking aggro from the tank. That takes skill, so if you call the tank a scrub for not holding aggro, you're a scrub yourself for not staying under his aggro. Nuking is easy, managing aggro takes skill. Normally aggro isn't a problem for a tank, I know from experience and DPS can go full out, but sometimes you end up with a tank that is learning or is much less geared than you. Look at this as an opportunity to educate people and hone your aggro management skills.

[Melonberry]

Queue as tank, throw up RF, stay ret, collect frost. If they kick you for not being a real tank, requeue in one second.

I highly suggest every geared dps that can do this does this. You're going to be tanking anyways, might as well let the healer know and get an instant queue.

Hell, maybe it is, but then again if the OP is such a good player he should know how to not take aggro anyway. I have played with bad tanks or learning tanks and would just give them a few seconds to build aggro. Then when I start I would still watch my aggro and throttle back if I seemm to take over. If this means that I'm doing less than 50 percent of my possible DPS, so be it. DPS task is to nuke the mobs/bosses without taking aggro from the tank. That takes skill, so if you call the tank a scrub for not holding aggro, you're a scrub yourself for not staying under his aggro. Nuking is easy, managing aggro takes skill. Normally aggro isn't a problem for a tank, I know from experience and DPS can go full out, but sometimes you end up with a tank that is learning or is much less geared than you. Look at this as an opportunity to educate people and hone your aggro management skills.

Gear shouldn't be an issue. Tanks don't scale much threat wise. They should be doing enough threat to hold off the 2394329k gearscore dps as soon as they hit 80, as long as they do their rotation correctly and using well timed taunts.

[Rüster]

The solution is to tank for yourself. Instant queue times. Infallible to the masses. And if someone pisses you off. Just go to the last boss then leave the group. Or move really slow. Like hit the walk button. Problem solved. Makes me want to tank a random. BRB!

[Halicia]

Nothing bug's me more than tanks that see a mob running off at a range dps or a melee dps and don't taunt it spouting the "If you aggro you can tank it" crap that is just bad tanking, and an excuse for feeling Emasculated.

dps that pulls aggro on mobs that they shouldnt even be attacking, yeah... thats ALWAYS the tank's fault. *rollseyes*

its not bad tanking for refusing to cover for bad dps. its bad dps for expecting others to work harder to cover for your incompetence.

morons & slackers. and if i catch people behaving like either they aint getting a rez from me after.

is there a single 5man in the game that cant be 2man'd ? dps has to realize all they are in the current state is passengers, if they cause trouble, they're getting thrown off the train.

[the_dynamite]

As a dps I do agree we need to tone it down to match the tanks threat. As a mage if I see on the first pull that my blizzard is sending out an invitation for a slaughter I start single target dps.

General rule of thumb
Tank dies ->Healer's fault
Healer dies - Tanks fault
Dps Dies -> their own damme fault.

Try giving advice but at the end of it you want to get those 2 badged asap. Roll with the situation since its almost 15-20 mins wait time as a dps.

[Deleted]

I agree that DPS should always match their threat to the tank, as a DPS myself I always try to. It's not even that difficult, a majority of tanks in randoms are now ICC geared, all it takes is little precautions. IE: Attacking the same target as the tank, AoE'ing once the tank has established threat on all mobs. A good, smart DPS should never be over aggroeing.
As for OP, suck it up man, because it's not going to get better.

[Drunkenfinn]

I'll just recite my signature and win the thread.

\o/