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  1. #1

    i dont think rets a dps spec anymore

    i think its more of a support class now, looking at the new spells and mechanics. Dstorm looks like its best used as heals instead. Zealotry is a weird one you can choose to either dps or heal friends. I dont know how others say they do fine dpsing as ret they could be lying or maybe they are bad-ass pro? One thing i did realise though is that people that are new to ret have more success that the ret veterans. In bgs i get creamed real easily by anything that hits me from far. Not saying im bad or rets suck but i find i have alot more success with another person with me. Whats your opinion on rets role in the game?

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire yovmit98's Avatar
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    I've seen great and horrid so far in pugs. Personally I'm not a fan of ret pve but I am enjoying it in bgs atm.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    i think its more of a support class now, looking at the new spells and mechanics.
    Welcome to the world of being a hybrid; get over it.

    Shaman have been going up and down constantly for years.
    1. Search feature never works for me 2. No, there isn't a thread answering exactly what I'm asking for

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by yovmit98 View Post
    I've seen great and horrid so far in pugs. Personally I'm not a fan of ret pve but I am enjoying it in bgs atm.
    support players can save lives!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    Dstorm looks like its best used as heals instead.
    Divine storm is almost always best not used. Zealotry is best used for burst (as you don't need to wast time putting Inq up). Rets are fine at the moment dps wise, about in line with ferals but a mile behind hunters/locks. I've found the only heal really to use in a group thats effective is tower of raidiance. Speccing selfless healer just isn't effective in anyway. You won't heal enough to make up for lower dps. Lay on hands however is arguably the most powerful heal (perhaps even ability) in game atm and should be glyphed and used whenever it is needed. 120k instant heals ftw!

  6. #6
    Keyboard Turner
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    In regards to Ret Paladins being a support class:

    I've been playing a retadin since Wrath (Insert wrathbaby here w/e) and I have become very aware of this fact and almost changed my specs to tank/holy, until one day something amazing happened! I was in a Cata group doing the lost city and at the final boss the tank and all the DPS wipe but me and the healer. The boss was at 1/5 the HP and my instincts kicked in. I changed to Devotion Aura, turned on Righteous Fury, activated my Guardian of the Kings, and started going full DPS on the bastard. I downed that boss with the assistance of the healer and realized my place in the dungeon, and I'm proud! Support classes are important too.

    Remember this story when you see a retadin in your group; the underdog of today's DPS charts. It may surprise you.
    Last edited by LordLladar; 2010-12-16 at 05:57 PM. Reason: It's Righteous Fury, not Avenging Wrath you silly man

  7. #7
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    No. Do not, I repeat DO NOT accept this. There is absolutely no reason for Retribution, which is labeled as a DPS spec, to accept sub-par damage and erratic mechanics and relegate ourselves to a support role.

    /rant


    Okay, now that the red haze has passed, time to be constructive. They (meaning Blizzard) touted that Cataclysm was a new dawn for Retribution, where we'd have all this awesome stuff and be fun and difficult to play. We'd have class mechanics that would separate the good players from the bad, and the Retribution paladin would no longer carry the stigma of being "faceroll" (okay, I think I made that last bit up, but it sounds nice).

    What we have now are class mechanics that are RNG based, so that a "good" player (those that do high DPS in this case) are those with great luck. We still hit stuff when it comes off of it's cooldown, it's just those cooldowns are sometimes noted by shiny buttons or a full Holy Power bar. It's the same damned horse, but they painted stripes on it and calling it a zebra.

    Also, if I see any of that old "you were OP in 3.0 so you deserve this" bulls*** in this thread, I will bring the hammer down.
    Last edited by Malthanis; 2010-12-16 at 06:58 PM. Reason: Have to be constructive or the boss will kick me.
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  8. #8
    Keyboard Turner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitsurugi View Post
    No. Do not, I repeat DO NOT accept this. There is absolutely no reason for Retribution, which is labeled as a DPS spec, to accept sub-par damage and erratic mechanics and relegate ourselves to a support role.
    Trust me, I am upset to see the Ret paladin become nerfed to hell. People today even STILL believe we are severely OP... this stigma has truly gone on long enough. I hate seeing my DPS fall less than par compared to other classes but alas there is nothing we can do about it. Since this sort of thing is in Blizzard's control and not the player's. I am forced to accept the idea of being a support spec.

    Maybe one day people will get their heads out of their own asses and the paladin will be back to it's former glory. I can only hope... With that said I will leave everyone with this:

    "Paladin- n. A paragon of chivalry; a heroic champion"
    We were meant to be your protectors... To OT when the warrior fails, to heal when the healer goes oom, and to DPS the shit out of the enemy until he is stricken dead. Why must you forsaken the class that loved you all so? Easymode for some, savior of the raid-group for others.

  9. #9
    The problem currently seems to be a fairly generic melee DPS problem, where weapon DPS just isn't high enough to compete despite melee's easier time gearing for raids eg: hit cap

    I really do hope they fix this overall but I can see Ret's staying low unless something is changed

    I was never a fan of Ret before Wrath and I'm not a fan of it now, the system worked fine at 80 with horribly inflated stat levels but at 85 it just leaves Ret too haste dependant and not much else, the mastery could use a tweak to bring it more in line with other stats which would also bring Rets a little more stat variety, but without a fairly major change I can't see it ever being something we really want

  10. #10
    I unno, last night I came second in dps in lost city normal with guild mates that usually are around 7-9k dps
    I would have been first but I got stuck somehow and literally couldn't get out of the fire >.>

  11. #11
    Keyboard Turner
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeirAdish View Post
    I unno, last night I came second in dps in lost city normal with guild mates that usually are around 7-9k dps
    I would have been first but I got stuck somehow and literally couldn't get out of the fire >.>
    I can promise you that this is because of one or more of the following:
    1. You were the only one really doing any DPS
    2. You were a level or so higher.
    3. You geared better.
    4. You're making this up. (Probably not this one... I just wanted a fourth).

    The truth is, there is a HUGE difference between each level and a HUGE difference between say... 10 item levels between characters since Cata. It could very well be that you were a level higher and had a decent item level in comparison. This could have easily been the case. It would explain why you did well in comparison to other guildies. If everyone was the same level with roughly the same item level, you probably would have been near the bottom (true, but sad, story)

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by LordLladar View Post
    I can promise you that this is because of one or more of the following:
    1. You were the only one really doing any DPS
    2. You were a level or so higher.
    3. You geared better.
    4. You're making this up. (Probably not this one... I just wanted a fourth).
    Or........
    5. The RNG gods looked down upon you favorably and granted you all the bells and whistles that you should never come to expect during any other combat sequence. Thank them and pray for more of the same.

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by LordLladar View Post
    I can promise you that this is because of one or more of the following:
    1. You were the only one really doing any DPS
    2. You were a level or so higher.
    3. You geared better.
    4. You're making this up. (Probably not this one... I just wanted a fourth).

    The truth is, there is a HUGE difference between each level and a HUGE difference between say... 10 item levels between characters since Cata. It could very well be that you were a level higher and had a decent item level in comparison. This could have easily been the case.
    actually it was a warrior dps (came first) and a mage (came third)
    The mage had a small case of lag but not very bad, Both the dps were in my guild both 85 and better geared then I.
    I just used my spells in the proper order and popped cd's at the right times rather then always saving them I used avenging wrath or whichever one is dmg boost more often then most rets would cause its just a 2m cd thats like every other trash or so depending on pull size...
    and get 3 HP and then the free HP use and go inquisition with the free, then Zeolotry, then crusader strike / templars verdict over and over only not using them if exorsism procs and then right back to them and on the last one pop inquisition again and keep inquisition running, holy wrath and consecration even on single target fights (only use consecration on single when both crusader strike, Judgment, holy wrath are on CD and Templars verdict and exorsism aren't ready, and from time to time use your Guardian... and when enemy is ready use your hammer or if you have wings hammer anyway
    theres a few other spells I use I believe but I don't remember them off the top of my head...

    and bam once you use the class right your dps will be much better...
    Trust me I used to think Ret sucked then my guild leader told me to sit down and read my spells and their cd times and make sure I understood what they did and figure out a rotation and try it out and bam my dps is alot better then before, I'm not ashamed to go into pugs as ret anymore.

  14. #14
    Keyboard Turner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prentice View Post
    Or........
    5. The RNG gods looked down upon you favorably and granted you all the bells and whistles that you should never come to expect during any other combat sequence. Thank them and pray for more of the same.
    Been there done that! I've had fights where I'm just using one after another. Others I'm waiting... and waiting....... and WAITING for them to come up.

  15. #15
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordLladar View Post
    I can promise you that this is because of one or more of the following:
    1. You were the only one really doing any DPS
    2. You were a level or so higher.
    3. You geared better.
    4. You're making this up. (Probably not this one... I just wanted a fourth).

    The truth is, there is a HUGE difference between each level and a HUGE difference between say... 10 item levels between characters since Cata. It could very well be that you were a level higher and had a decent item level in comparison. This could have easily been the case. It would explain why you did well in comparison to other guildies. If everyone was the same level with roughly the same item level, you probably would have been near the bottom (true, but sad, story)
    Not entirely true. When our procs light up, we can go mad on the DPS charts with burst.

    @KeirAdish:
    This could very easily be true, and is likely tied to how long you were alive. I know Recount (not sure about other damage meters) only tracks your DPS while you're alive. Thus, you could have had a string of procs, and then died, and your DPS would still be reasonably high.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitsurugi View Post
    @KeirAdish:
    This could very easily be true, and is likely tied to how long you were alive. I know Recount (not sure about other damage meters) only tracks your DPS while you're alive. Thus, you could have had a string of procs, and then died, and your DPS would still be reasonably high.

    I do use recount, I actually wasn't aware it only tracked while I was alive.
    But my dps was second as was my overall dmg, even on the others charts.

    off topic: do you happen to know a system like recount that will keep it tracking even after death?
    I'd like to have it running alongside Recount to see the difference, though I expect it would cut your dps down to like 500-1k if you died during a fight which would be kinda lame... xD

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Prentice View Post
    Or........
    5. The RNG gods looked down upon you favorably and granted you all the bells and whistles that you should never come to expect during any other combat sequence. Thank them and pray for more of the same.
    ^^ This. I don't think we're 100% broken, but we're certainly not good either. Random strings of good luck can make things look great, but overall, ret just doesn't have it anymore. We're too RNG dependent, our rotation is erratic with too many pauses preventing us from getting a rhythm going, and our supposed "best" ability (the one our Mastery is built around) is only third place on our damage dealers. I enjoy the support abilities that come with wearing plate and having heals, but if my dps is sacrificed for them, I want it to be by choice. If I choose to use a GCD and my holy power on WoG instead of TV, then my dps drops. If I don't, then it's comparable to everyone else. There's no need for the class to be designed oddly in some attempt to balance utility on Blizzard's end.

  18. #18
    As of now, I'm just holding on to hope that they eventually fix the mechanics. I could care less (well, probably at least some high amount) if we do sub par DPS, I want some consistency. They gave us this new resource of RNG (and you all thought it was holy power) that doesn't hold very well.

    They've hinted at making changes to, Hand of Light, and perhaps more... we can only wait and deal with what we got.

  19. #19
    It could always be worse, brothers in arms, it could be the Vanilla-TBC era still. At least when the Planets align and the RNG Gods smile upon you you're transformed into a light slinging wielder of Holy Death. Before Wrath being a Retadin was masochism.

    We deserved to be somewhat OP in Wrath, which cooled off considerably after 3.1 (we were no longer OP after Yogg was dead). This heavily reliant RNG stuff is sickening though. Eventually it'll get better again though.

  20. #20
    Dreadlord Warlight's Avatar
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    Honestly, I don't really care what is good/bad as a ret. Just do what you do, and don't qq.

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