Is TMW a must have?

[Hitmonlee]

I play a destruction warlock and i've been using Elvui for quite some time but i saw almost everyone uses TMW so i decided to try it so i downloaded Sparkuggz's profile. I tried it for a few weeks and i just don't see it useful, everytime i wanted to see an ability CD or a proc i ended up looking at the action bars or elvui's procs (above your character's health). So i was wondering if getting used to using TMW is actually worth it or i am just better off using elvui and not worring about it?

[Ibis]

In my opinion the benefit would be that you can set the TMW icons where you want so you don't for example have to keep looking at the bottom of your screen, and you can have all the information in a smaller area rather than a row of action bars. So I suppose it helps you see what's going around you. I also setup WA/TMW indicators and still found myself looking at the action bars, which is really hard habit to get rid of if that's how you've played. My solution was to hide all action bars to be able to rely better on my TMW/WA indicators. For me ElvUI has both action bars & unit frames placed so low that while you can see better what's happening in the world, I would pay too much attention on the bottom of my screen and the middle of the screen would be in my peripheral vision. Which is why I have my unit frames and most of the relevant combat information mostly in the middle of the screen.

I think it's really up to you. It's by no means mandatory to have any of those, if you feel like you don't have problems with how you play anyways, it doesn't matter if everyone else is using those addons. You don't need to use something you don't feel is necessary.

[Anzen]

Looking at the bottom of your screen to see buffs is just force of habit, and it'll be a hard one to break. There is no denying having aura's closer to your character is superior, being able to pay more attention to your character and what he's stood in (since most people place aura's close to their character) whilst also being able to track specific buffs (I'm aware you can do this with ElvUI, albeit it takes longer to set up) in a convenient matter.

Personally, on my Warlock I find not only tracking trinkets great (being able to get up reliably get as many CB's off during trinket windows as possible) but you can also track things like:

Fire & Brimstone: before I had an aura set up for this, the amount of time's I'd accidently not cancel it, then F&B>Incinerate one mob I don't even care to mention. A nice big aura showing when F&B is up works a treat.

Rain of Fire: if you're in a specific situation where you'll need to keep up RoF (like protectors or something) having an aura makes it so much easier than bobbing your eye in circles round your screen trying to track your embers, trinket procs, mechanics, RoF uptime and F&B.

Havoc: Obvious for the same reasons.

[SlippyCheeze]

I play a destruction warlock and i've been using Elvui for quite some time but i saw almost everyone uses TMW so i decided to try it so i downloaded Sparkuggz's profile.

So, I think you made two mistakes here.

The first one was that you grabbed a solution -- TMW -- without having a problem first. That is gonna mess you up, because you probably didn't have a specific reason for needing it, so everything it does is *FOR YOU* useless right now.

The second one was grabbing Sparkuggz profile, which goes even further, and solves the problems someone else has in a way that is useful to them. That makes it even less likely that it will help you out solving your own personal problems.

Instead, turn this around: remove the Sparkuggz profile, and possibly even the addon. Then look for a problem you have.

For example, on my ele shaman I got the 4PC and wanted to track uptime on the damage increase after casting earth shock. So, I solved that by creating an additional bar in my IceHUD display, right in the center of the screen. A couple of guildies were all "O_o WTF" about it because, to them, it was huge, intrusive, ugly, and they couldn't understand why i would have it there. To me it fixed the uptime problem on the target debuff, bam, where other solutions wouldn't.

Neither of us were wrong, we just needed different things to make the game work best for our classes, play styles, attention and focus, etc, etc. Do the same for yourself: figure out what the problem you are trying to solve is first (eg: need to track, havoc being up, or some other proc) and then figure out a solution (eg: TMW might help)

[Oxyra]

If you're worrying about looking down at your bars, do what I do, it took a little bit of getting used to but once you're used to it, it works so much better.

Get WeakAuras and Bartender 4.

Set up all your Hot Keys for every ability. Then hide all your bars permanently.

Then set up WeakAuras for everything you need to track including ability CDs and put them where you want, small boxes is fine.

Here's a video of my UI in action. Notice based on my bar positioning, my screen focus is generally always just above my character.



Also, there's pretty much nothing you can do with TellMeWhen, that you can't do better with WeakAuras.

Here's a full set of guide on this guy's YouTube channel to set up WeakAuras. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzqf6WEpUU0

The only thing I found better in TellMeWhen is ICD tracking of trinkets.

[Ibis]

Also, there's pretty much nothing you can do with TellMeWhen, that you can't do better with WeakAuras.

The only thing I found better in TellMeWhen is ICD tracking of trinkets.

Actually I think that TellMeWhen's configuration is a lot better and easier/faster to set up than WeakAuras for simple trackers, but if you want something outside the box (like literally something other than icons / bars), then WeakAuras is immediately much better. At least for me. I still use WeakAuras because I'm waiting for the day when TMW allows dynamic groups, but I'm often thinking that something would be much quicker to do in TMW. TMW has sort of "built in" options so the end user doesn't have to worry much, whereas WA has a much more "raw" solution to setting things up which in the end allows for a lot more customization.

I don't know how simple things like "show me this cooldown" can be done much better or worse if you compare the addons. I don't think it's a matter of "better vs. worse", just a matter of preference in that case. Also TMW's profiles is A LOT better system than WA's "I load everything first and then I check the rules and decide what shouldn't be loaded". But yeah, still using WA because I need dem dynamic groups.

[Deleted]

Its not a must have, i have played a warlock ( most of the time Destro) and i have only touched it once

[Deleted]

Weakauras and TMW I always thought they did the same things

[Deleted]

As SlippyCheeze mentioned, find a problem first before you start looking for a solution. If you find that you're tunneling your actionbars unnecesarily, hide them. If you feel like it would be handy to know when you have a certain buff up, make a weakaura for it or get TMW.

Never copy paste someone else's UI.

For example, take myself. As a healer, i somewhat liked certain elements of Jhazrun's UI (and no, it wasn't the pony), namelly the fact that he had his action bars hidden, and only had his abilities that had a cooldown showing. However, i ended up not using his UI, as i didn't like the position of many of the elements in there. In the end, i had a UI that was roughly inspired by Jhazrun's, but ended up as something completely different

[blackblade]

something completely different

off topic but, What addon are you using to have the cooldown rotation on-screen like that in your last screeny?

[Deleted]

It's just a weakaura

[Kromus]

I replaced WeakAuras with TellMeWhen, just to try it out.

In reality they both do the same thing, and I see little benefit from one to the other, but I'm just happy leaving TMW since I have profiles setup for it.

I don't think, like most addons, it's essential, it's just an ease of life. It's easier to track buffs, CD's etc by having something more central to the screen, rather then looking at the top right/left or at your bars themselves.

As a Warlock, I've setup trinket procs, among other procs, as it's critical to get your Chaos Bolts off with as much damage modifiers as possible, from your procs. It's much more responsive for me, having them flicker centrally, to REALLY let me know, rather then checking up at the buff bar top tight every now and again.

Since I first put in Weakauras, after powerauras, many moons ago, it's become one of those "Must haves" for me personally, as it just makes life so much simpler.

Imo Tell Me When and Weakauras do the same thing, so if you have one, you really don't need the other.

I notice most top players use TMW rather then WeakAuras, but I think that is simply because most top guilds have one or a few guys who make some stuff for boss encounters, and its easier if everyone is using the same application, to share out the import string.

[Soisoisoi]

I swapped from WA to TMW a while ago - they do indeed both do pretty much the same thing. Though personally I find it much easier to setup full priority lists (CLCret-type thing) for pretty much any class. I've been told it's possible with WA, but never did it when I used it.

OT: It's not required, but if you don't have TMW (or WA2), then you're basically hindering yourself and your raid. For your situation OP, you'll want to disable ElvUI's aura bars (the proccs/buffs above the player&target frame) - and start watching TMW instead.

[SlippyCheeze]

OT: It's not required, but if you don't have TMW (or WA2), then you're basically hindering yourself and your raid.

You might want to justify this position. Personally, I don't agree with you, but you clearly believe it. You have reasons. I am genuinely interested to know what they are, because several times this sort of discussion has led me to reassess my position and, I think, become a better player overall, so... why?

[blackblade]

It's just a weakaura

Ah, thanks.

[Deleted]

You might want to justify this position. Personally, I don't agree with you, but you clearly believe it. You have reasons. I am genuinely interested to know what they are, because several times this sort of discussion has led me to reassess my position and, I think, become a better player overall, so... why?

Gonna give it a shot. Using weakauras you can set up notifiers for important buffs/debuffs on encounters (such as malice in p4 garrosh) and important class buffs, trinkets etc. These are all, in principle, viewable from the default buff/debuff frames, but these are tucked away in a corner of your screen and you have to search among other buffs/debuffs you don't really care about, in order to view them. In addition, this makes it so you can't instantly see when these buffs are up and when they fall off.

With weakauras/tmw you can place these important things in a position where you will notice them a LOT faster. This means that you can focus more of your attention on other encounter mechanics, what your raid members are doing, planning movement, focus more on optimizing dps etc.

Since there is a way for you to notice these things faster and and in a more effective manner (i.e without taking away your attention too much from other things), not using such addons means handicapping your raid. And Blizzard does balance heroic encounter difficulty around players having access to such an addon.

[Ryme]

I find WA to be better, particularly if you can do a bit of code. I have a couple of auras set up that predict an optimal rotation for a couple of classes - though this heavily impacts how fun the game is to play, it's amazing for setting up initial muscle memory.

[SlippyCheeze]

Gonna give it a shot. Using weakauras you can set up notifiers for important buffs/debuffs on encounters (such as malice in p4 garrosh) and important class buffs, trinkets etc. These are all, in principle, viewable from the default buff/debuff frames, but these are tucked away in a corner of your screen and you have to search among other buffs/debuffs you don't really care about, in order to view them. In addition, this makes it so you can't instantly see when these buffs are up and when they fall off.

With weakauras/tmw you can place these important things in a position where you will notice them a LOT faster. This means that you can focus more of your attention on other encounter mechanics, what your raid members are doing, planning movement, focus more on optimizing dps etc.

Since there is a way for you to notice these things faster and and in a more effective manner (i.e without taking away your attention too much from other things), not using such addons means handicapping your raid. And Blizzard does balance heroic encounter difficulty around players having access to such an addon.

OK, that is reasonable. I agree with the sentiment, but not necessarily with "these are the only tools".

[Soisoisoi]

You might want to justify this position. Personally, I don't agree with you, but you clearly believe it. You have reasons. I am genuinely interested to know what they are, because several times this sort of discussion has led me to reassess my position and, I think, become a better player overall, so... why?

OK, that is reasonable. I agree with the sentiment, but not necessarily with "these are the only tools".

Forgot to check back, but Sertii said most of it. To reiterate though:

TMW and WA2 aren't the only tools that can do this, no - but they are the two most common and can do more than other single addons. You want to track your buffs/debuffs? NeedToKnow. Internal Cooldowns? ExtraCD. Rotation helper, CLCRet or whatever the class one you want is called. Or, simply, do all of those [and more] in a single addon with TMW or WA2.

Also, there are more people using them, so more widely available strings are already on the internet for people to simply copy, which makes them easier to get started with for people who don't want to spend time setting them up.

Compared to the default UI, the way you can set up either TMW or WA2 makes you waste far less time and attention on looking for things rather than simply having the information in the right place. It's more efficient, and can do more - such as internal cooldowns on trinkets. For example, I tend to have an icon show the buff duration of a trinket or cooldown, and then if it isn't up, in the same place I have the remaining cooldown of it. With the default UI? Action bars for the cooldown and then literally the opposite end of the screen, moving around between lots of other mess is the buff duration. Of course you can have another addon deal with the buffs, but again that's more addons for the sake of one.

Not using these doesn't make you a better player, it just means you're either using different AddOns, or you're being inefficient and having to look around your screen a lot more. That's not necessarily bad, but it is worse; there's no denying that.

[SlippyCheeze]

TMW and WA2 aren't the only tools that can do this, no - but they are the two most common and can do more than other single addons. You want to track your buffs/debuffs? NeedToKnow. Internal Cooldowns? ExtraCD. Rotation helper, CLCRet or whatever the class one you want is called. Or, simply, do all of those [and more] in a single addon with TMW or WA2.

Also, there are more people using them, so more widely available strings are already on the internet for people to simply copy, which makes them easier to get started with for people who don't want to spend time setting them up.

Compared to the default UI, the way you can set up either TMW or WA2 makes you waste far less time and attention on looking for things rather than simply having the information in the right place. It's more efficient, and can do more - such as internal cooldowns on trinkets. For example, I tend to have an icon show the buff duration of a trinket or cooldown, and then if it isn't up, in the same place I have the remaining cooldown of it. With the default UI? Action bars for the cooldown and then literally the opposite end of the screen, moving around between lots of other mess is the buff duration. Of course you can have another addon deal with the buffs, but again that's more addons for the sake of one.

Not using these doesn't make you a better player, it just means you're either using different AddOns, or you're being inefficient and having to look around your screen a lot more. That's not necessarily bad, but it is worse; there's no denying that.

I think part of the difference comes from how we think about it: you think about WeakAuras as "one addon" doing all those things. I look at it, and it is really not: it is one addon to track each buff, another addon to track each ICD, and so forth. Each aura -- each export string you use -- is another addon for *you* to maintain. Frequently they don't need much maintenance (eg: aura to track if a flask is in use? only needs updates when a new flask ships.)

So, yeah, I don't see there being the same compelling advantage to "one addon plus a bunch of import strings that are addons in their own right", compared to "a bunch of addons", the same way you do. Which is legit -- maybe the richer framework that WA provides means those "addons" are less bug-prone. (Not so, in my experience, that you would notice either way, but whatever.)

To the later: I agree that you can do better than the default UI for placing information well. I also am happy to grant that it may be easier to place WA or TMW displays in a way that avoids scattering information. I am less convinced that this is inherent in the tool, though, and strongly suspect that other than copy-and-paste WA "full sets for your class", this ends up being just as scattered on average.

(In fact, since a "full set of stuff for your class" is equivalent to "one addon from one author that does everything for your class", it probably compares evenly.

So, yeah, still not convinced, though we agree on a number of points. (eg: that the default UI does not do a great job of placing information you need where you need it.)