Rejoice, rejoice, Blizz heard our pleas...no snapshotting for Rogues =)

[Feali]

Dispatch is literally 360º backstab, if the name backstab is so goddamn problematic, rename it.

But the iconicness...

[Sesshou]

That doesn't mean you shouldn't love it. It's not Backstabs fault. I think Backstab fits Subtlety well myself, but that's subjective.

I don't think Sinister Strike is a better example. It's only been used by one spec after all.

Oh really now. What did you use to kill stuff solo as assassination back in vanilla after your cheap shot faded? I'd be willing to accept SS never being used by sub even though it was all you had before you got high enough to spec into hemo because you'd never use it as sub at 60. Assassination on the other hand, you would keep SS on your bar.

[shadowboy]

Oh really now. What did you use to kill stuff solo as assassination back in vanilla after your cheap shot faded? I'd be willing to accept SS never being used by sub even though it was all you had before you got high enough to spec into hemo because you'd never use it as sub at 60. Assassination on the other hand, you would keep SS on your bar.

Assassination used SS even in TBC, back then mutilate had a positional limitation.

[Oggiva]

Oh really now. What did you use to kill stuff solo as assassination back in vanilla after your cheap shot faded? I'd be willing to accept SS never being used by sub even though it was all you had before you got high enough to spec into hemo because you'd never use it as sub at 60. Assassination on the other hand, you would keep SS on your bar.

I mostly used gouge and kidney shot I believe. Efficiency wasn't an issue back then. It was all about being ninja stabbing in the back.

To be fair though I thought we were talking about raiding/pvp environments. Leveling in vanilla is kinda pushing it to sell sinister strike as an iconic rogue ability, as opposed to a combat ability.

[Deleted]

Assassination used SS even in TBC, back then mutilate had a positional limitation.

No, on robots BS was used instead of Mutilate or just the plain combat spec. SS with a dagger was completely unefficient and using a slow weapon was far more efficient with a plain combat spec.

[Sesshou]

I mostly used gouge and kidney shot I believe. Efficiency wasn't an issue back then. It was all about being ninja stabbing in the back.

To be fair though I thought we were talking about raiding/pvp environments. Leveling in vanilla is kinda pushing it to sell sinister strike as an iconic rogue ability, as opposed to a combat ability.

Not leveling, soloing. Theres a pretty big difference. I'm perfectly willing to write off abilities only used while leveling because you don't yet have all the tools. And I'm not saying you had to use SS all the time, but it was something you should have on your bar. You could kidney shot and then backstab, but if they're low it would make a lot more sense to just SS and evis for more damage at less energy.

I don't think SS is an iconic rogue ability either, but its about as iconic as backstab.

No, on robots BS was used instead of Mutilate or just the plain combat spec. SS with a dagger was completely unefficient and using a slow weapon was far more efficient with a plain combat spec.

Yeah uh not really. It wasn't more efficient to pool a ton of energy and/or dump your cp just so that you can use a positional attack on something that was near death. Now sure on a robot you can get behind, backstab was significantly better than SS with a dagger.

[Oggiva]

Ahh. You see, I never hit level cap during my one year in vanilla, so solo and questing meant the same thing to me. I was too busy doing other stuff like pvp, professions and goofing around. Was lvl 58 when TBC launched. My playstyle would probably not change much if I had hit level cap though. I don't think there's that big of a difference between leveling and soloing, except for the dungeon bosses that can't be CC'd.

[shadowboy]

No, on robots BS was used instead of Mutilate or just the plain combat spec. SS with a dagger was completely unefficient and using a slow weapon was far more efficient with a plain combat spec.

Yup, you sure do use backstab when playing solo. The post I was referring to was not considering end game, where, SS served no purpose in any spec outside of combat. The point was "do other specs use SS" and in TBC SS was the ONLY combo builder assassination had in situations where they could not be behind a target (ie, soloing when a target won't die in a stun). Is it efficient? No, but it's all they had. Even in wrath when mutilate had no positional requirement--they still had to use sinister strike up until level 50ish.

[Sesshou]

Ahh. You see, I never hit level cap during my one year in vanilla, so solo and questing meant the same thing to me. I was too busy doing other stuff like pvp, professions and goofing around. Was lvl 58 when TBC launched. My playstyle would probably not change much if I had hit level cap though. I don't think there's that big of a difference between leveling and soloing, except for the dungeon bosses that can't be CC'd.

Ah, well, it really applies to BC as well. I went with Vanilla because part of my original point was that backstab was and should have stayed an assassination ability and mut pretty much replaced it. However, in terms of debating SS vs backstab for iconic rogue abilities, I actually should have just said BC to begin with. SS was the optimal builder for combat (swords were the top weapon), SS was used by assassination due to everything else having positional requirements. Backstab was used for what for that entire expansion? Poison immune mobs you weren't soloing and rogues stuck with sub optimal combat gear (meaning daggers) who also weren't soloing? Now that sure sounds like an iconic ability... pretty much ignored by everyone for 2 years. Makes my case even better than Vanilla.

Also, since I think it wasn't clear, I meant leveling versus soloing [at cap]. The big difference is that there are things you didn't get until a certain level, like hemo. If we're including leveling, then SS was important to all 3 specs. I just don't think that using X simply because you don't get Y until level Z should mean that X is important.