In what situation will Gladiator stance be usable?

[Deleted]

Anyways since I didn't see anyone mention it yet outside of 1 reference:

Biggest issues Glad will have is (if I'm remembering correctly): 1. aoe is pretty bad. Even if it was buffed, the fact that its based around long-term aoe instead of burst, (just have T clap) is a large issue. 2. No rallying cry means no raid cd. 3. No access to D-stance for DR on demand.

You can make arguments for why those aren't that important, but that's pretty much just being biased for wanting it to be equal without looking at dps. It also has some advantages (mocking banner glyph probably has niche uses and unique dps gearing) but probably not enough to offset the aoe and rallying cry issues.

*Above may be incorrect, I am not an expert. Mostly just trying to consolidate what I've seen others say on the subject.

Gladiator is worse in the aoe and the raid utility department but im pretty sure it has stronger survivability than arms and fury with resolve (stronger Shield Barriers, stronger enraged reg), Shield wall, demo shout, last stand and then the fact that it uses tank stats to gain DPS makes it a lot more tankier by default.

I guess they could make demo shout make everyone in the raid take less damage and IDK buff bladestorm for AOE?

[Raugnaut]

Not even the case.

High geared DPS = more raid DPS = faster kill times = less damage taken = less need for tank to be geared.

It's MUCH easier to carry a tank (they still need to know how to play, though) than it is to carry DPS.

That right there is a Fallacy, and is only useful for dps vs. healers. For tanks, the total damage taken over a course of a fight does NOT matter- its the spike damage that occurs at points during the fights that matters. And for the really scary burst damage, gear is everything- an extra 2 ilvls can be the difference between barely surviving that spike, and completely surviving that spike. Finally, as tanks require more gear, healers can spend more time healing the stupid dps that stands in fire, and less time healing the tank on the same fight.

So yea, your dps doesn't matter shit if your undergeared tank continually gets gibbed by ability X.

[Archimtiros]

That right there is a Fallacy, and is only useful for dps vs. healers. For tanks, the total damage taken over a course of a fight does NOT matter- its the spike damage that occurs at points during the fights that matters. And for the really scary burst damage, gear is everything- an extra 2 ilvls can be the difference between barely surviving that spike, and completely surviving that spike. Finally, as tanks require more gear, healers can spend more time healing the stupid dps that stands in fire, and less time healing the tank on the same fight.

So yea, your dps doesn't matter shit if your undergeared tank continually gets gibbed by ability X.

That goes both ways though. Assuming your raid doesn't afk through bosses, tank gear doesn't matter past the point of survivability. This is why most serious raid groups gear DPS first. That and there are far more DPS checks than tank survivability checks in the game.

[Pool of the Dead]

In beta the difference in DPS between my Glad stance and Arms/Fury Warriors is small enough that I could do all 3 and still be competitive against other classes.

[zoomgpally]

Not even the case.

High geared DPS = more raid DPS = faster kill times = less damage taken = less need for tank to be geared.

It's MUCH easier to carry a tank (they still need to know how to play, though) than it is to carry DPS.

More DPS = faster kill times = less damage taken TOTAL
Better geared tank = lower DTPS = easier on HPS requirement

- - - Updated - - -

Remember that even tanks who offpsec Gladiator will need dps cloak/jewelry/trinkets. TBH it gives dps warriors an extra chance to 'use the best weapons they have available' if their raids tanks already have shields more than it helps tank warriors offpsec dps.

Why would they need that? Bonus armor is their best dps stat afaik, and there is no other "tank only" stats in wod.

[Zantos]

I think what he meant is right now with current hotfixes, Gladiator is far above the other two specs; once those hotfixes are reverted, or when new balancing that we are expecting comes through, Gladiator will very likely drop again.

I gotta say though, please don't start another debate of "why not? why won't they leave glad on top? how do you know hotfixes will change things". Nobody knows. Class design team will balance how they see fit, but from everything we have seen thus far, Gladiator will not be as strong as Fury/Arms for progression raiding.
Doesn't mean it sucks, doesn't mean you can't play it. Just means Gladiator isn't quite as good.

Well honestly, I have seen Gladiator performing quit well. The only reason as to why it might not end up being as good is because of its aoe. Single target, it seems stronger then the others. I am expecting its aoe to get stronger once people can actually start using it. Honestly a blunder on Blizzards part to make Gladiator for 100 only. Should have been 90 at the latest so we could be testing this now. Instead they will have to watch Gladiators closely when launch comes.

But hey, itll be just fine for progression unless you're in a over the top hardcore guild. The kind that makes you roll an alt because its more dps.

[Warriorsarri]

We roll alts mainly so that we can funnel more gear onto our designated Mains, meaning we can get 2-5 times as much gear as guilds who only do one run per week.

Regarding who gets gear at the start of progression. DPS will ALWAYS get geared first, no questions asked. In the top-end progression race what's keeping you from killing the boss is either something with the tactic you're using to down the boss, or a lack of dps to execute said tactic. The more gear your DPS has, the sloppier the an attempt can be, and still net a kill in the end

[Orissan]

I think it's something like fury is good at short lived adds due to WW / RB, Arms is better at long term adds because TFB to WW spam / SS. Glad is strait up single target, it's AoE is similar to no venom zest rogue, it's there because it has to, not because it wants to.

Glad is defiantly going to be the best for PvP though. Natural tankiness plus I think shield charge / charge are separate (May be wrong) so they would have more mobility. But most importantly they have intense single target burst, which will always be king in none massive BG play, heck even in most bg's that are not team fight oriented your still at most doing 6v6.

[Deleted]

So from my perspective, Gladiator Stance has only one scenario in which it 'could' be useful to Warriors (PvP aside):

If a fight requires 2/3 tanks and there's a significant amount of time (~30 second to 1min) that tank(s) don't have any aggro from either the boss or adds, they can jump to Gladiator Stance and increase their DPS output for that section of the fight. If, as Blizzard are saying, this is meant to be a viable DPS stance and the fight requires a fairly heavy output of DPS this could be an interesting tactic allowing for Warrior tanks to effectively become hybrid DPS throughout an encounter. Sort of similar to how a resto druid could switch to cat form to increase DPS output for a short period of time.

On the other hand though, I don't agree with us needing it as another DPS spec in itself, I don't think I've ever as a Warrior thought "hmm, I wish I could still DPS this fight even though I've come geared as a tank". You're either one or the other, trying to force DPS with a sword and shield doesn't make much sense other than giving us more choice and that's all I can really see with this spec, it's more choice.... because it's more choice...

But as it's already been pointed out many times, we won't see the true benefit of this until level 100, which I also agree was a mistake not making it level 90 for pre-patch live testing.

[Deleted]

So from my perspective, Gladiator Stance has only one scenario in which it 'could' be useful to Warriors (PvP aside):

If a fight requires 2/3 tanks and there's a significant amount of time (~30 second to 1min) that tank(s) don't have any aggro from either the boss or adds, they can jump to Gladiator Stance and increase their DPS output for that section of the fight. If, as Blizzard are saying, this is meant to be a viable DPS stance and the fight requires a fairly heavy output of DPS this could be an interesting tactic allowing for Warrior tanks to effectively become hybrid DPS throughout an encounter. Sort of similar to how a resto druid could switch to cat form to increase DPS output for a short period of time.

On the other hand though, I don't agree with us needing it as another DPS spec in itself, I don't think I've ever as a Warrior thought "hmm, I wish I could still DPS this fight even though I've come geared as a tank". You're either one or the other, trying to force DPS with a sword and shield doesn't make much sense other than giving us more choice and that's all I can really see with this spec, it's more choice.... because it's more choice...

But as it's already been pointed out many times, we won't see the true benefit of this until level 100, which I also agree was a mistake not making it level 90 for pre-patch live testing.

You cant switch between glad and def stance in combat.

I dont know how many times this has to be said: Gladiator stance is a DPS "spec", if you choose gladiator you are going full out DPS and it is being balanced as any other DPS spec.

[Satori]

If a fight requires 2/3 tanks and there's a significant amount of time (~30 second to 1min) that tank(s) don't have any aggro from either the boss or adds, they can jump to Gladiator Stance and increase their DPS output for that section of the fight. If, as Blizzard are saying, this is meant to be a viable DPS stance and the fight requires a fairly heavy output of DPS this could be an interesting tactic allowing for Warrior tanks to effectively become hybrid DPS throughout an encounter. Sort of similar to how a resto druid could switch to cat form to increase DPS output for a short period of time.

On the other hand though, I don't agree with us needing it as another DPS spec in itself, I don't think I've ever as a Warrior thought "hmm, I wish I could still DPS this fight even though I've come geared as a tank". You're either one or the other, trying to force DPS with a sword and shield doesn't make much sense other than giving us more choice and that's all I can really see with this spec, it's more choice.... because it's more choice...

You can't switch into and out of Gladiator in combat.

It is a DPS "spec".

[Larsadius Rex]

It's actually funny but sad to see that some of you are so detached from the aspect of "fun" in a video game that you are at a loss as to why this was implemented. It was implemented so people can play sword n board dps. Why not go arms or fury? Well what if I do t want to dps with a 2h or dw, and I think back to play Zelda etc. to just smashing face with a sword and shield? It's not to assure raid spots, not to increase utility, it's just for freakin' FUN.

[Bizerk]

It's actually funny but sad to see that some of you are so detached from the aspect of "fun" in a video game that you are at a loss as to why this was implemented. It was implemented so people can play sword n board dps. Why not go arms or fury? Well what if I do t want to dps with a 2h or dw, and I think back to play Zelda etc. to just smashing face with a sword and shield? It's not to assure raid spots, not to increase utility, it's just for freakin' FUN.

That's nice and all but for most people who contribute here the "fun" is gone when you are worse than everyone else. Of course I do agree that there is no point in wondering why anymore as it is already in the game.

[Murlocbait]

That's nice and all but for most people who contribute here the "fun" is gone when you are worse than everyone else. Of course I do agree that there is no point in wondering why anymore as it is already in the game.

But there's a difference between considering whether it will be properly balanced to be an option as raid DPS, and wondering why it even exists.

[Ferg]

That right there is a Fallacy, and is only useful for dps vs. healers. For tanks, the total damage taken over a course of a fight does NOT matter- its the spike damage that occurs at points during the fights that matters. And for the really scary burst damage, gear is everything- an extra 2 ilvls can be the difference between barely surviving that spike, and completely surviving that spike. Finally, as tanks require more gear, healers can spend more time healing the stupid dps that stands in fire, and less time healing the tank on the same fight.

So yea, your dps doesn't matter shit if your undergeared tank continually gets gibbed by ability X.

The difference between tanks and DPS is that tanks hit a wall of sorts with their gear, when they simply won't die. They reach their "survivability cap" for any given encounter based on their gear at hand.

A DPS never caps out. You can ALWAYS improve on DPS.

There are also way more DPS checks than tank survivability checks in this game. Trust me...at a higher level, you want to gear DPS over tanks, I'm sorry if I'm offending you by saying that but that's the way it goes.