Tanking heroics and the gearing issue

[TheDeceived]

So I hit 100 on Sunday last week and was sitting roughly around 590 average ilvl. As I'm a big fan of PvE, I was keen to get into the normal level 100 dungeons but was short of the ilvl requirements. Not a problem, sites like Mr Robot are great at listing where you can get upgrades from. It was clear Nagrand was a good spot for getting some decent upgrades, so I've spent a few nights this week completing all the quests in that zone to get the upgrades needed.

I'm now at an average ilvl of 609 and have completed all the normal level 100 dungeons. The natural progression now is to move on to heroic dungeons but I don't feel like I'm geared enough to tank heroics yet (obviously the ilvl gate is 615, so I know I'm short of that at the minute). However, I don't feel that an extra 6 ilvls is going to take me from undergeared to just about geared for heroics.

I did jump in a few last night with some friends and it was clear that I was still too squishy to take on anything more than 3 mobs in a single pull. It wasn't horrifically bad, but the healer was working hard to keep me and the group up. Boss fights were sketchy and eventually I dropped out so they could finish the instance as I felt I was holding them back. Another PuG group moaned and complained about my level of gear (which might be valid in some way) and eventually left the group due to constant bashing each other.

My problem now lies with what do I do next to close this gap in gear? PvP is a possible solution as it's reasonably easy to faceroll random BGs and spend a few weeks gearing up there but it seems like the wrong path to take in order to gear up for PvE content?

How are other tanks finding tanking their first few heroics? What's it like to heal a tank who is roughly at the entry level of gear to tank heroics?

[Xarganthos]

i have skipped tanking the lv100 normal dungeons, and started doing heroics with an ilvl of 607. i have to say i'm playing a death Knight, but dont worry about just tanking one pack after the other. heroics shouldnt be faceroll just yet, so ist natural to take it slowly. use your cooldowns if you have too and you should be fine. also dont Forget that if dps are taking damage they could avoid, it puts more stress on the healer, which means he cant keep up with healing you too.

pardon my english

[Fitsu]

With tanking, I found the first couple of days to be an adjustment period... I was so used to MoP charging a pack and hitting a few aoes without even looking at my HP that when I first started tanking HCs same as you I felt like I was dropping like a rock and I thought "huh, must be a gear thing" swapped to DPS and carried on PUGing (plenty of stuff to do atm while we wait for queues).

Then I saw a tank, similar gear to me but he was pulling 2 packs at a time and taking less damage than I was from 1 at which point I realized you can't play like you did in MoP. So I went back to tanking, and started to focus a lot more on survivability rotating cooldowns and making sure I had a lot more control over the packs rather than just face rolling in and it helped a lot to the point now that while my gear is a bit better I can handle up to 3 packs and take less damage than I did before from 1.

[DemoBytom]

Ye, just stick to friends for HCs for the momment. CC on pulls and don't rush it.

[Chintz]

the ilvl req for heroic dungeon finder is 610 and not 615.
if the healer and/or other party members have quite low ilvl as well just cc one or two in trash groups.
on bosses as long as not everyone ingoring mechanics its all doable np. just takes a minute longer to kill.
all in all after you have some upgrades from doin first HC dungeons it will become cake and u can pull all trash groups w/o any cc whatsoever
and the faceroll begins (way to early actually :<)

[Squishy414]

I tanked my first heroic successfully at 583. Grimrail depot.

The issue is not your gear and there is a tendency for groups to blame the tank or healer for wipes. My advice is pretty simple, mark one mob for one of your dps to cc each pull. This will make your life easier and help your healers out massively. I'm a MS healer and I will mass entangle every pack so the tank can pull them back and have an easier time of it. If they do this I can generally keep the tank up with hots and help with dps.

They never do and just run in spam aoe and I have to spam heal them and drink after evey pull. I have taken now to just casting cyclone on one add to relieve the pressure on tougher pulls.

Heroics have changed and while they are not "hard" they can be made easier by using crowd control and not ignoring mechanics.

TLR Mark on mob. Assign a dps to cc each pull. You will have an easier time

[Kuthe]

It's fine.
The ilvl entry is 610. I entered at 608 (abused the pvp gear ilvl boost, oops).
It wasn't hard. The healer was fine. I used my cds, and for trash packs we cc half of the pack.

Heroics are easy peasy.
Trash needs to be CC'd. You need to use your CDs, you can't just taunt and afk the rest of the fight like we could do in MoP.

[TheDeceived]

Thanks for the replies

I'll try and get DPS to use something other than DPS spells. In the past, it's been tough to communicate to DPS that they have roles other than focusing on the damage meters. In terms of rotating cooldowns, I'm doing that already and it is helping the healer out a lot, especially when I see DPS standing in places they shouldn't. there are times that even with 4 bigger and 2 smaller cooldowns, it's not enough :P I guess that's my lack of belief in PuG healers as it's a mixed bunch of abilities.

I'll have another crack at some PuG heroics tonight and see how they go (playing with friends is rare due to only being able to log on around 10pm UK time each night, so it's either PuG a heroic or do something other than instances).

[Ninotchka]

Did you get the legendary ring first step? 610, it pulls you up a good deal. Also, what are your trinkets? There are two trinkets from the reputation vendors that you can buy in Ashran, and they're fairly decent. Made a difference in my survivability, but your milage may vary.

[TheDeceived]

I linked my armoury in the original post. I have managed to get the 640 epic ring from the legendary quest line but I wasn't aware of the trinkets in Ashran. I'll take a look this evening and see if I can make use of them. Thanks for the heads up!

[Krom2040]

CC really does help a lot, but of course there's a tendency for DPS to not want to do anything but mash their three DPS buttons. So the problem is mostly cultural, from my point of view. I think people will get used to it.

I will say that I've been playing my ass off in heroics, and still a lot of people aren't happy and dropping the group when something goes wrong and so on and so forth. I'm a pretty good player, have the Proven Defender and Proven Healer titles and all that, but some people are just bitchy and can't handle the fact that not everything is trivial yet.

[Sorissa]

And interrupt. Everything. Use stuns if your regular interrupts dont work.

If you need help getting your Ilevel up, you can replace lower level stuff with drops from nagrand rare monsters.

[Ninotchka]

Yeah the trinkets are a 615 multistrike one from the Arrakoa that summons a Saberon to come help you, and a 615 crit from the Frostwolves that summons a wolf protector. The quartermasters are in the building where you find your guild bank.

[Nevcairiel]

In my experience, as a healer, it greatly depends on the class of the tank at this point. Paladin in my guild was far easier to heal through a heroic at barely 600 than the monk tank at 620 (no ilvl reqs in premade groups).

Monks are just extremely squishy right now, while warriors and paladins are in a much better place, with DKs and Druids being somewhere in between.

[revhunt]

Tanking has changed significantly. You don't care about threat generation anymore, that's easy. Don't focus on your dps/threat rotation at all. You aren't DPS, you aren't there to have 99,9% activity.

As long as the mobs are sticking to you (which they will), you really don't need to sweat it and insanely focus on hitting a dmg/threat ability on every GCD unless you need to squeeze in something defensive.

Take your time, take a deep breath, look around you and think about everything in a calm manner. Interrupts, stuns, positioning yourself. Don't be afraid to tell your DPS to interrupt/stun as well, if they don't. CC can be used but I don't think it's needed once you are at/around the 610 ilvl.

This is also class dependant, if you are a druid you don't really have that much of a toolbox to speak of. If you are maybe a warr or a DK, go to town, be creative. Spell Reflect? Intervene? Using aoe fear to interrupt? Hell yea.

[Isyl]

Interrupt most of the casts from mobs in the instances, long stun chains and dispells are very very useful again (FINALLY).
If you are having the "grimrail problem" always nuke gunners, cinder or boomers first in there.
PM me if you want more help with gearing etc