What if 5-man dungeons were introduced to endgame?

[Durtnasty]

i think it would be awesome if we saw some end game content more focused around smaller parties. Something different than raids and heroics, but can offer you the same kind of gear that a raid does. What do you guys think?

[Mercarcher]

They are called challenge modes. They give the same rewards as LFRs with the daily.

[Mifuyne]

So it would be supposedly even harder than challenge modes?

[Durtnasty]

I guess what I'm trying to say is what if WoW was less focused on endgame raids and came out with a new smaller party alternative. I think that would be cool.

[ro9ue]

i think it would be awesome if we saw some end game content more focused around smaller parties. Something different than raids and heroics, but can offer you the same kind of gear that a raid does. What do you guys think?

Id like to see a version of every raid as a 5 man dungeon. Same level of difficulty tho. 10 man + raids have become super gimmicky with taunt swaps and just throwing down massive raid blanket heals. I think a properly tuned 5 man where there's 1 tank 1 healer and 3 dps would be much more interesting. I find challenge modes more fun than mythic raids personally, but I'd rather it just be hard instead of being hard and timed. Could you imagine if mythic raids were timed... lol.

[Spoonman]

So it would be supposedly even harder than challenge modes?

How can it be harder than Challenge Modes? The tuning is already so incredibly tight

[Jawless Jones]

Like Hour of Twilight or ICC 5 mans?

Or raid difficulty 5 mans with raid level loot?

[Tyrgannus]

Most people do not see Challenge Modes as a realistic endgame 5 man. Loot works very differently in Challenge Modes versus other dungeon difficulties (or raids for that matter), are timed, and have gear scaling. This is a very different experience than say Mythic Raiding. OP is asking for essentially Mythic 5 mans, and I would be totally behind that.

[Lamb Mine]

They used to have these, they were called Heroics in the Burning Crusade expansion.

I don't really think challenge modes quite fit the bill (although I have yet to play WoD CMs). My experience with MoP challenge modes made them seem like it was all about the timer and not really the difficulty of the encounters. Burning Crusade heroics were difficult due to the tuning of the trash/bosses.

- - - Updated - - -

Their difficulty level was right on par with the first couple tiers of raids, with a few standouts like Shadow Labs, Magister's Terrace, and whatever that one was in Hellfire (mind is drawing a blank for some reason).

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

They are already part of the end game. At least for another week.

[SL1200]

I like this idea. No more raids and a lot more 5 mans in their place.

[cityguy193]

They are called challenge modes. They give the same rewards as LFRs with the daily.

Nope. CMs are about the trash slowing down groups, with just simple, but overtuned boss mechanics, with no actual gearing or loot system in place.

Think of the mechanics of a raid boss, on a dungeon boss, with the fight taking 8-10 minutes to do. Something like Thok, except with a 5 person fight.

[MoanaLisa]

There's sort of a growing movement in MMO's generally that investment of so much time and designer resources in raids may be doing more harm than good. It's not a really difficult case to make.

On the other side of that is the fact that raids are an iconic part of World of Warcraft and for now that's not changing. They went all-in with raids in MoP and I don't see any real change to that in Warlords (yet).

I wouldn't mind seeing some new five-mans created that were set in raid instances and alluded to side stories for the original raids but the catcalls about rehashed content would drown out any good that would come from it. So you get what you get. Mists had over 40 raid bosses. It's a lot of dungeons if you think about it that way.

[Destruktion]

You're essentially describing TBC heroics. I would love to see those make a return, just not in the way they "returned" in Cataclysm.

[nekobaka]

It has been discussed over the years. Was a bit of support last expansion with generally the only players against it being the pro-LFR camp which includes those who want all resources going into raiding. Right now the biggest obstacle I see is LFR. If heroic five mans by Ion's claim have the power to kill LFR and the focus is so heavily on keeping LFR as the alternative to raiding then I dont think it can happen at least yet. Would be nice to see a return of alternatives to raiding that is not "raiding".

I dont expect to see any raid content this expansion except perhaps MC for some kicks. LFR didnt keep me last expansion and it certainly isnt going to be of interests this expansion. Friends brought me back in and five mans are just significantly more feasible and enjoyable to run with friends.

[RoKPaNda]

I guess what I'm trying to say is what if WoW was less focused on endgame raids and came out with a new smaller party alternative. I think that would be cool.

Until the introduction of LFR, 5-mans already were the endgame for like 70% of WoW's playerbase.

[lel]

it's a good idea, would be fun to have challenging 5 man dungeons

[Comp]

i think it would be awesome if we saw some end game content more focused around smaller parties. Something different than raids and heroics, but can offer you the same kind of gear that a raid does. What do you guys think?

It depends on your end goal.

Most still wouldn't see it if they were harder than CM.

If your goal is just to have a way for smaller fella to do get "endgame gear" then yeah it could work in theory, but would ultimately devolve to mythic raiders selling 5 man runs to those who farm gold. Not particularly unlike guilds who we'll mythic runs, but significantly easier and more lucrative.

The ratio of smaller groups doing it seriously to the groups selling it to people who can't even get into heroics would be such a stretch that it wouldn't even be worth it in all reality.0