What's the best outcome a casual/semi-hardcore guild should aim for next week?

[Deleted]

I'm also in a semi-hardcore guild and we've set 635 as ilvl target. Crafting/CM/Salvage Yard/Missions got most of us close to 640 ilvl in fact.

Regarding progression our target is normal without the last boss as we'll be going 30 man and he might scale up more then we can manage right now, heroic as far as we can go. I hope 3 bosses on heroic for week one. Everything above that is bonus, but not progressing heroic won't be bad since we're using this time to select 20 raiders for mythic out of the almost 40 available right now.

As a raiding guild you should expect queues first of all on high pop servers.

[Deleted]

It's really best to aim high, unless you have the kind of group that will fall apart at the first sign of trouble.. Try Heroic, it might hurt and seem like a impossible battle but you'll learn a lot more about the fight.

[Deleted]

In a non-hardcore guild, most people just do need/greed.

That's completely offensive. Most so-called/self-proclaimed "hard core" guilds are full of loot drama. It's only when it gets to the top 50 or top 30 in this game that the quality of gamers really goes to mature levels most of the time.

It's more likely that the more casual guilds have cooler heads that the overwhelming majority of the the top 50 to top 500 guilds.


i.e. your little theory is absolute nonsense. And sending a casual guild in heroic first is absolutely ludicrous as a suggestion.

[Daydreaming]

It's better to do a heroic clear before a normal clear. That way there won't be any issues with people who had gotten a normal piece previously upgrading it with a heroic piece. If that happens, then another raider loses out on the normal piece for no gain for your raid.

what? If i get normal piece then another person gets hc piece. If we do hc 1st then i get hc piece and another person gets normal piece? wtf are you talking about?
also chances of clearing hc after clearing normal are higher then other way around.

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You have two people with a 630 chest. You run normal, and a 650 chest drops. In a non-hardcore guild, most people just do need/greed. So one wins the 650 chest. Now you do heroic, and a 665 chest drops. The same chest, and the same two people roll. The person with the 650 chest wins it, since it's still a massive upgrade. Now you have one person with a 665 chest and one with a 630 chest, and the 650 chest is irrelevant.

If you want to avoid any situation even similar to this, and you don't want to overhaul your loot acquisition method, you run heroic first.

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You don't need to clear it to have killed at least one boss.

Spend 50-75% of your raid hours on heroic, then clear normal if you hit a wall.

As commented before you edited i will comment again. Unless your guild allows this shit to happen and allows to get a person win both rolls then it is messed up because in progression you gearing the raid and not individuals.

[Slant]

That's completely offensive. Most so-called/self-proclaimed "hard core" guilds are full of loot drama. It's only when it gets to the top 50 or top 30 in this game that the quality of gamers really goes to mature levels most of the time.

It's more likely that the more casual guilds have cooler heads that the overwhelming majority of the the top 50 to top 500 guilds.


i.e. your little theory is absolute nonsense. And sending a casual guild in heroic first is absolutely ludicrous as a suggestion.

My experience doesn't show what you're saying at all. It's the hardcore raiders that realise the group comes before the individual. It's the casuals that step up and start reasoning out exactly why they should deserve this item more than the other dude, because you see, he got something already... as if that's a valid reason not to give him something more if it's better for the group.

I think your judgement may be clouded by personal experience. Granted, the same goes for me.

[Vargur]

Nothing wrong with progressing in "heroic", it's the way it's supposed to be.

i.e. your little theory is absolute nonsense. And sending a casual guild in heroic first is absolutely ludicrous as a suggestion.

Umm... heroic is actually <MoP normal, in case you didn't realise. Nothing heroic about it.

[Deleted]

Go straight for heroic. Remember heroic is what normal mode was. Nobody in a decent guild with decent players is going to bother with normal(old flex) for more than pugs. You probably won't clear it, but take a stab at it, you'll get a few bosses in. Challenging content is more fun and better for a developing raid than easy content is. Normal is designed to be easy content. More challenging than LFR, but less so than Mythic.

[Sheridanjohn]

Go straight for heroic. Remember heroic is what normal mode was. Nobody in a decent guild with decent players is going to bother with normal(old flex) for more than pugs. You probably won't clear it, but take a stab at it, you'll get a few bosses in. Challenging content is more fun and better for a developing raid than easy content is. Normal is designed to be easy content. More challenging than LFR, but less so than Mythic.

Every top guild is going to be doing heroic + normal. 655 gear is going to help so much for progression in mythic

[Leakage]

Every top guild is going to be doing heroic + normal. 655 gear is going to help so much for progression in mythic

They will, but I think he was implying that the good guilds are doing heroic first, then normal after.

[Argarock]

sure good luck finding 20-30 casuals where the majority doesn't completely suck

pretty sure you would find them in a guild that cleared mythic :P

Casual =/= bad


OT: I would go as far as I could on Heroic, then clear on Normal before going back to Heroic.
(I see no point in wasting time doing normal if you can clear Heroic within the first 2-3 weeks)

[Didacticus Syntacticus]

They will, but I think he was implying that the good guilds are doing heroic first, then normal after.

Aside from insane individual loot drama issues, which are a people problem that can only be solved by fixing people, it makes no sense to do Heroic first.

(1) Normal will go faster and if you clear it, bam, you have more gear!
(2) Mythic will sure as shit go faster than it would if you hadn't just got the gear from (1).

On the other hand if you do them reversed:

(1) Mythic goes slow, you find the brick wall boss, you spend a couple nights on it. You don't get much gear.
(2) People are too tired to want to go back to do Normal, and everyone else is pissed you didn't do Normal first. You get zero Normal gear unless your more enthusiastic raiders decide to go pug, where they meet new friends, and move to their guilds instead of your weird backward guild.

[kamuimac]

pretty sure you would find them in a guild that cleared mythic :P

Casual =/= bad

if u didnt ignore what op said about not clearing content pre-nerf then maybe u woul come to a bit ifferent conclusions about the possible skill-set of op guild.

tbh i highly doubt that any guild which didnt clear hc soo before summer has any chance to clear hc on week 1 - it might be much more valuable to go possibly clear normal to clear tactics and then try to kill 3-4 bosses on hc. But tbh i think a lot of guild will face hard reality check after over a year in nerfed content and we gonna see a lot of "omg-ikilledgarosh-mythic but i cant kill first boss on hc" threads in a week. just like we saw a lot of those in cata and in mop . no idea why people seem to think its gonna be different this time.

[Pennoyer]

Just remember that going straight to heroic in early expansion dungeon gear is going to be quite a bit different from going into a tier with full heroic raid gear + legendary cloak. What seemed like a steamroll in SOO normal may not be the same in H Highmaul.

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

Go into normal fist, learn the fights, develop your own tactics that works for your group and then have it a little easier on heroic

[Deleted]

My experience doesn't show what you're saying at all. It's the hardcore raiders that realise the group comes before the individual. It's the casuals that step up and start reasoning out exactly why they should deserve this item more than the other dude, because you see, he got something already... as if that's a valid reason not to give him something more if it's better for the group.

I think your judgement may be clouded by personal experience. Granted, the same goes for me.

I said, and read it again, that yes, the top 30 or the top 50 in the world may be like that. But most of the so-called or self-proclaimed "hard cores" are loot drama queens. This is most of the top 500 really.


I've seen way less loot drama in casual raiding than those top ~200s top 100s top 300s etc.

[Slant]

I said, and read it again, that yes, the top 30 or the top 50 in the world may be like that. But most of the so-called or self-proclaimed "hard cores" are loot drama queens. This is most of the top 500 really.


I've seen way less loot drama in casual raiding than those top ~200s top 100s top 300s etc.

Not sure, depends on the raid lead. I used to raid with a lot of people that created drama for all kinds of reasons, including loot. I stopped most debates before they got ugly and sometimes I let it run because I needed opinions. Loot drama can happen when the loot master looks indecisive and thus creates an opening for critique of his decision. If you have someone who knows his stuff, drama doesn't have any soil to grow from.

Just to make it clear, I'm not actually disagreeing with you, but from my small sample size, it doesn't seem that bad. Loot drama is a thing people are growing out of, the player base is maturing in general. But it happens in the most casualist guilds on a daily basis from what I can tell. For really the stupidest reasons. So meh, how about we don't talk about casual vs. hardcore. I don't think that distinction really factors in a lot. It's an age thing.