Empowered Seals VS Seraphim VS Final Verdict Highmaul

[drtrann]

after having slept and reread what I wrote, I feel like I should edit my below 5 hp priority because i did make a mistake.

below 5 hp it is acceptable to burn a proc, in the same priorty as the 5 HP list, but only when the builders are off GCD and wont be coming up withing .2 seconds, it just happens very rarely. not sure why i was so dramatic about not burning them, just ment to emphasize that you shouldnt be burning the procs as soon as they show up.

This is wrong. Banking to 5 before using procs will result in cs and how sitting unused. The ability priority list is posted in the ret theory craft thread

feel free for someone to correct me here, but I believe the value of CS is not in its ability to deal damage, but generate HoPo. there will be situations which you will sit in where you will have unused hopo generators and at 5 holy power, there is absolutely zero reason to cast CS.

now I might be misunderstanding what you mean due to the above correction I had to make, if everything is on cd anyway, yes you should burn a proc and not bank it.

[Monolith of Mazes]

With DP/FV you would use a proc after CS and before J in the priority. I think the discussion started with DP/FV questions, so that's what I had in mind when I replied

[drtrann]

With DP/FV you would use a proc after CS and before J in the priority. I think the discussion started with DP/FV questions, so that's what I had in mind when I replied

interesting, I'll give it a try tonight.

*the more you know*

[Fascinate]

I just ran a H butcher with this paladin:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ttshank/simple

620 pvp gear with empowered seals, he pulled 26,677 DPS on that boss destroying everyone. I do not have my pally to 100 yet, just posting this here to show how good empowered seals is (and possibly, how OP pvp set bonus is for pve). As reference im a decent hunter, i did 22k dps at 647 ilvl.

[drtrann]

I just ran a H butcher with this paladin:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ttshank/simple

620 pvp gear with empowered seals, he pulled 26,677 DPS on that boss destroying everyone. I do not have my pally to 100 yet, just posting this here to show how good empowered seals is (and possibly, how OP pvp set bonus is for pve). As reference im a decent hunter, i did 22k dps at 647 ilvl.

empowered seals should have a very little effect on that number. he would be doing ~ the same damage with final verdict. interesting enough, with his current gear seraphim is actually a really hard dps loss.

did you guys log the encounter because I'm really interested in how hes pulling that much (baring some wierd interaction with his pvp gear, there is now way he should be pulling those numbers).

*edit:* looks like you have been had. he has a 651 gearscore, hes just not wearing it now.

[Incandescence]

I just ran a H butcher with this paladin:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ttshank/simple

620 pvp gear with empowered seals, he pulled 26,677 DPS on that boss destroying everyone. I do not have my pally to 100 yet, just posting this here to show how good empowered seals is (and possibly, how OP pvp set bonus is for pve). As reference im a decent hunter, i did 22k dps at 647 ilvl.

From the sims I've ran, it seems with good reasons that seraphim requires almost perfect play to do well, where as FV and Empseals' mistake-performance ratio is a bit more lenient.

A good weapon makes a huge difference in DPS as well as reacting to GCDs preemptively. With that said, it's really easy to cheese meters. For example, if you pop CDs in the last 30s of the fight, your dps will spike up on the meters; if you aoe the adds say on imperator in the last few moments of the fight, your 'dps' will increase exponentially. Don't pay too much attention to meters, look for uptimes, cast sequences, APMs and damage breakdowns etc.

[anaxie]

Burst 35k whoaa my burst on pull is only 120k+

[Eurytos]

Seraphim would be great if it was Guardian of Ancient Kings. In fact, I'm convinced that's what it should be/is trying to be a replacement.

I keep thinking how to make Seraphim more attractive, because it is very enticing, but I hate how it actually plays. The 5 hp cost is just awful. The 15/30 is too short. 30/60 would be better at a 5 hp cost, but the 1000 per stat would probably have to change. A 3 hp cost at a lower value with similar cd could be ok, but that actually makes me like it less.

I guess I just wish it was better than it is. I just don't like the feel of it. I hate EmpS worse though, so I play with FV.
On a larger note, I wish lvl 100 talents were as good as lvl 75. I like playing with all 3 of those. And just am underwhelmed with the lvl 100. On a smaller note, I miss the spin move of TV that FV doesn't have as its action animation.

[Varabently]

So far, this is most accurate information I have found since the beginning of WoD. And it is consistent with all the talent builds/stats of top ranked players I have seen.

Kargath / Butcher / Tectus / Brackenspore / Kor'agh: I am using SW + EmpS. I like the %15 haste and %15 AP and the switchings. It feels more right. And yes, my stats are kind of all over the place
Twins: DP + FV feels safer because of all the mobility and two targets for the most of the encounter.

Brackenspore has two targets for most of the encounter also, so wouldn't that be a good one to use DP+FV?

- - - Updated - - -

I don't get why so many ppl go FV. Too much downtime. Probably lazy ppl. EmpS ftw.

I use DP + FV and my downtime is pretty minimal. I guess if you're going SW+FV maybe it is, but DP fills in those gaps in your rotation quite nicely. It's a different playstyle for sure, but I would think swapping seals would end up clipping your CS/J cooldowns too many times, but I guess you have to juggle that huh? What you call lazy, I call avoiding needless complication. That said, I may try out EmpS just for the hell of it, since some rets seem to be in love with it.

DP + FV does feel like the safe choice though, but I wouldn't call it lazy.

[Necromaniac]

I used to be a fan-boy for FV-DP combo since I hit 100 in the first few days of the expansion, I looked at Seraphim and thought it was retardedly bad like Holy Prism is with the 5 HP cost.That was until I tried Seraphim with Sanctified Wrath and now I feel so clunky and dumb using FV-DP anymore... I feel like all 3 level 100 talents are on par with each other in dps. It just comes down to playstyle really. Because our other Ret paladin in my guild is using FV-DP combo and he is pulling almost identical numbers as me with Ser-SW on most fights. And just a smidgen ahead on multi-target fights.