Monk "nerf" was not enough

[TheWindWalker]

Skill > Ilvl > Class (unless the class is absolute rock bottom). If a Monk in 635 is owning people in the 640-645 range, especially other classes who are near the top of the spectrum like Hunters, then the problem is your raid and not the Monk.

Could also just be that the monk is in absolute dungeon BiS with a handful of warforged items giving him exactly the right stats he needs and those 5-to-10 ilvls above him have stats all over the place and are energy/rage/mana starved, not getting procs and generally suffering from lack of reforging combined with a low number of sockets in which they can be fairly tiny +stat gems that make virtually no difference while eating food that is no better than it was before.

Guess we'd have to check that same group when the Monk is in raid gear.

[Shamburger]

I think we needed a nerf, Blizz jsut allocated it on the wrong place. Need to tone down SEF numbers and leave our ST alone

[Rawfury]

Not going to lie the constant nerfs to ww monks kind of killed my fun(buzzkill) a little bit. To the point where i have unsubbed. Now .. i just want to say i dont mind not being TOP dps thats fine. What bothers me is the other issues that have not been addressed(as some other things but to stay on topic its about monks)

-It made our pvp capabilities even worse. What i mean by this is we have a HARD time doing high amounts of damage quickly. We need time to do most of our burst. Shaving off 10% of ALL damage in 2 weeks does not help ONE bit.. I keep hearing from blizzard that they do not balance around PVP. That is such a terrible excuse i dont even..don't get me started

-Our rotation is already tight as it is and we have to pay attention to plenty of things in order to even achieve great numbers.(ex: think frost dk or fury warrior in terms of hit CD and use 1-2-3 and do LOTS of damage versus managing chi,energy,chi brew, and reaction based CDs that you have to think about AT TIMES(bettwen HJK and ChiEx and maybe even FoF during certain moments). This semi complicated rotation that grabs my attention constantly is one of the reasons i moved over to main the class from a Frost DK. If any of you have melee'd as a frost DK i think you can kind of understand what i mean. It put me to sleep. I tried Feral for a bit but i didnt enjoy it and im not a fan of FOTM classes but the enjoyment is the key thing for me..

-In terms of tri/spec or multi spec classes we actually have it the worst in terms of defensive cd's and self healing(Ret self healing, feral self healing as some examples although stupidly strong atm and STILL havent been nerfed are FAR better) We dont heal ourselves for free it costs energy AND its really weak.

-We rely heavily on chi brew to do any high damage or burst. Which means we need time in order to gain these chi brews we cant just get in there and wreck right off the bat.(you can use frost dk or warrior as an example again)

I know im QQ'ing and i know im mad before someone blatantly points it out to me again and again. Im just frustrated... with enjoying Monks in MoP.. to maining it for WoD and then getting hit by nerfs and nerfs. It seems like unless you are a warrior,hunter, or mage you're 'niche'. You can only be good at one thing or another(blizz stated no class can be good at everything...yet these 3 classes i mentioned ...in fact ARE including PVP). if AoE for monks was a problem or cleave i honestly don't see why those werent tuned down. Instead they took the easy way out and said ok we're taking away ALL 10% of your damage. I think the crying is warranted since everyone else has seen minor tuning(slight buffs to certain abilities or slight nerfs).

[Saverem]

"huurrrr dis monk doin betta dem me n im afrade muh incompetunce will gett meh sat out 4 raydz. plz nurf dem blizz even do im makin post about it in a board that blizz will never see or care about..hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr"

[Yoda11]

it's always interesting to see the people who ask for nerfs to classes rather than buffs. IDK but IMO I think those are the people that are afraid that if their class gets a buff and they still pull shit dps then everyone would know that they are shit and not the class.

[Raincrow]

Monks do need an adjustment, but not a flat 5% nerf. The nerf is too large for single target and not nearly enough for cleave. Flat nerfs hit really hard when scaling comes into play, and sims show that monks drop quickly in the single target DPS race over this tier, which won't matter at ALL if they keep spoon feeding us cleave-friendly fights. FIghts with adds that allow us to use Touch of Death multiple times a fight contribute to high numbers, some of which tends to be "overkill" damage. This can be true on Brackenspore and especially for Kargath for monks going into the stands. Kargath is an odd bird because we can post high DPS numbers that don't actually matter. Yes, I did a HOZILLION damage to Iron Grunts with SEF + Chi Explosion, but no on actually cares if Iron Grunts get killed, and the damage done to them is just false padding. On Twin Ogron it's just a straight 40% buff, which can really throw the numbers, and Tectus fights let us do 165% damage pretty reliably after he shatters. We won't get that, but the straight buff to damage helps to mitigate time lost to knock back and moving, so we pull ahead.

The pattern is pretty clear, which is why the direction that the nerf runs in is confusing. Why are they nerfing our overall damage when it's the percentage buff from SEF that is causing the inflation? Nerfing SEF back to 120% total no matter the number would have been a better start, without touching the single target dps.

[Pandragon]

So we get this fresh ilvl 635 monk in out raid. Rest of the raid is a siting around 640-645 and manages to pull between 20-22k dps each. But the monk pulls ahead on every fight pushing 25-27k with 5-10 ilvl lower.

Clearly the 5% nerf was not enough. Maybe its time again for another hoftfix.

if this happened you were either on twins and judged him only by that fight. Or your entire raid sucks and you need to quit after clearing normal. No monk is going to out dps ppl being 5-10ilvls lower unless its like twins. You all need to accept the fact that blizzard has destroyed Windwalker and it will take them forever to fix it. Or nerf it more, cause of delusional ppl who keep saying its still op.

[DFu4ever]

Skill > Ilvl > Class (unless the class is absolute rock bottom).

Eh, I don't think that scale of importance represents DPS output considering the various DPS rotations that are out there and the varying difficulties between them. Not to mention the inherent superiority of certain classes at certain times. That scale could be completely reversed in some situations, where Class > ilvl > skill would end up being the story.

Skill is fun to talk about, but it's importance when it comes to DPS is more in squeezing out that little bit more that others might not be able to do effectively. Knowing your rotation is baseline. If you take two players of the same class and spec, one being average in skill but having superior gear, and one being superior in skill but having lesser gear...I'd bet on the geared player every time.

[soulzek]

Angry cuz someone's virtual numbers are higher than yours?
Very, it seems.

[Deleted]

Ret has, by far, the highest self-healing for a non-heal spec in the game. It's about as pure-DPS as a Disc Priest.

What a load of bullshit., there is no dps spec that does not have some form of survival mechanic. Ret is healing, others have CDs, evasion etc. Every "pure" dps spec has tools to survive, ret is no different, its no reason to make other specs have more dps.

this whole PURE dps arguement is facile and, quite frankly, stupid.

-

More OT.

Why do you care about ilvl? I run LFR on my alts and consistently do more dps than people 20+ item levels higher....no matter what class. maybe the monk is just better than you, has better optimised gear, is better at getting more uptime...and in the case of WW, uses his abilities to really push damage, like maxing ToK and ToD usage, and correctly stacks his CDs serenity and brew stacks etc to get as much dmg as possible.

WW does well over time...other classes have more burst, but WW gradually catches up. So right now where fights are longer, WW's end up doing more dmg, as everyone's dps increases, WW will do relatively less dmg as fights become shorter.
nerf them too much now, and in a short while they will need buffs....so lets avoid that silly cycle shall we.

[Selah]

Monks have been nerfed three weeks in a row now. They don't need more nerfs.

[Deleted]

Today was the first time I really felt the nerfs hit my dps hard
I'm also finding out that at the minute, a higher item level means squat. My trinkets are terrible, even though they're way higher than the dungeon ones I was using (they're the ones you get from follower missions, ilvl 645 from 630).

I dunno, maybe I just had a bad day, but I wasn't being lazy, I was doing everything the way I normally do it.

I'm relatively new to the game, and 6.0 changes took me a while to get my head around. Sometimes I forget that jab costs me like... 50 energy now (or is it 40?). Either way, bleh.

[stomination]

Actually it'd be better if they buffed a few classes. Especially the pure dps classes.

Pure hybrid stuff is dead. Dead

[Deleted]

Monks have been nerfed three weeks in a row now. They don't need more nerfs.

Yeah, but I bet we will.

[Cwimge]

Fuck monks. OP rolling pieces of fotm shit

[Ulfhedinn]

Fuck monks. OP rolling pieces of fotm shit

I would really like to know why the least played class keeps getting called fotm.