How did this person achieve top surv parse?

[Herecius]

Hold up, might've spoken too soon... I'm not experienced enough with the event view to exactly be able to tell which is which here and would appreciate some outside confirmation. Going through it, I was able to find one instance in which arcane shot multistriked, but there was only one serpent sting tick that followed...

00:01:23.742 Promethieus Arcane Shot The Butcher 3158 (Multistrike)

00:01:23.742 Promethieus Serpent Sting The Butcher Tick *9522*

00:01:24.036 Promethieus Black Arrow The Butcher Tick 4742

Every other instance of an AS that gets a multistrike is followed by at least 2 SrS ticks, however. Cannot tell if both the initial AS and AS multistrike are applying the SrS tick. Definitely would like a more experienced log parser than I to puzzle this one out, as it has pretty good ramifications for gearing and shot priority.

[Maxie]

I guess it's time to spam dat AS whenever TotH proccs? I'm feeling the carpal tunneling already.

[Reals88]

yea I am not the greatest at WCL, I will be asking my guild and other people I know to be good with WCL. Ill keep everyone posted. As of now though, MS is definitely much higher in priority and i think that Possibly GT > barrage for single target. We'd have to do more math to determine if non TotH Arcane shot > barrage for focus dumping.

currently barrage is worth about quadruple the dmg of arcane shot, focus point per focus point. Heres some math on that same log

Arcane shot: 1,190,000 dmg (74 casts)
1,190,000/74 = 16,081.1 dmg per arcane shot

Barrage-barrage dmg to adds: 473,900 dmg (7 casts)
473,900/7 = 67,700 dmg per barrage

barrage(60 focus) : arcane shot(30 focus)

67,700 : 16081.1 x 2 (32,162.2)



67,700 > 32.162.2

[Herecius]

Gotta keep in mind that in the time it takes for Barrage to finish outside of lust, you could've gotten two Arcane Shots and their respective SrS ticks off, however. As Barrage also isn't empowered by Surv mastery, I'm thinking that the AS is going to actually win out here at a certain gear point, but definitely would like to see some supporting math for this. It'd represent an awfully significant change in shot priority if so.

[Reals88]

Gotta keep in mind that in the time it takes for Barrage to finish outside of lust, you could've gotten two Arcane Shots and their respective SrS ticks off, however. As Barrage also isn't empowered by Surv mastery, I'm thinking that the AS is going to actually win out here at a certain gear point, but definitely would like to see some supporting math for this. It'd represent an awfully significant change in shot priority if so.

yep exactly. I think barrage might not even be worth using at all for single target. Need someone better at math to back this up though, still just a theory.

- - - Updated - - -

00:00:08.536 Promethieus Arcane Shot The Butcher 4450 (Multistrike)

00:00:08.536 Promethieus Serpent Sting The Butcher Tick *14873*
00:00:08.536 Promethieus Serpent Sting The Butcher Tick 2625 (Multistrike)
00:00:08.536 Promethieus Serpent Sting The Butcher Tick 2625 (Multistrike)
00:00:08.536 Promethieus Serpent Sting The Butcher Tick *14872*
00:00:08.536 Promethieus Serpent Sting The Butcher Tick *5354* (Multistrike)

5 ticks go off after 1 AS... how? lol im so lost. Not sure how there are 2 ticks of SrS, 1 for 14873 and the other 14872 happening at the same time..


Arcane Shot(Multistrike) does NOT proc a SrS tick here..
00:00:29.214 Realsx Arcane Shot The Butcher *5795* (Multistrike)
00:00:29.238 Realsx Serpent Sting The Butcher Tick 4509
00:00:29.238 Realsx Serpent Sting The Butcher Tick 1623 (Multistrike)

Arcane shot(Multistrike) DOES proc a SrS tick here..
00:00:47.716 Realsx Arcane Shot The Butcher *5990* (Multistrike)
00:00:47.716 Realsx Serpent Sting The Butcher Tick *9018*

wtf..

[Kihra]

Don't read too much into timestamps. A very slight timestamp delay doesn't mean that the events aren't connected. Looking at my own logs, it sure looks like every Arcane Shot damage event (including multistrikes) refreshes Serpent Sting, and this refresh causes an immediate Serpent String tick (which can itself multistrike).

The following expression while viewing a Summary view of your own character is useful for seeing this easily:

ability.name = "Serpent Sting" or ability.name = "Arcane Shot"

- - - Updated - - -

Multi-Shot behaves the same way:

00:02:01.208 Kihra Multi-Shot Iron Grunt 7 *1781* (Multistrike)
00:02:01.208 Iron Grunt 7's Serpent Sting is refreshed by Kihra
00:02:01.208 Kihra Serpent Sting Iron Grunt 7 Tick 5813

[HonneurVilified]

My boy Prom is just a well-geared and skilled hunter. He wants me to say that this wasn't even a good kill for him, as you can see from some of his ability usage. Nothing too special.

[tibben]

So, wow. I switched all my gems/enchants and scope over to multistrike, but I'm still about 400 MS below my Crit just due to the gear I was able to obtain. I guess I need to bring my own MS food to raids.

[Reals88]

My boy Prom is just a well-geared and skilled hunter. He wants me to say that this wasn't even a good kill for him, as you can see from some of his ability usage. Nothing too special.

He was extremely blessed with good RNG on that parse for sure.

[ragetg]

So, wow. I switched all my gems/enchants and scope over to multistrike, but I'm still about 400 MS below my Crit just due to the gear I was able to obtain. I guess I need to bring my own MS food to raids.

Nah just take off a few pieces of crit gear and save it to an equip set and use it before you eat feast.

[Herecius]

My boy Prom is just a well-geared and skilled hunter. He wants me to say that this wasn't even a good kill for him, as you can see from some of his ability usage. Nothing too special.

While we can see he's certainly both well geared and playing pretty damn well, I'm still more curious about what this could potentially mean from a shot priority standpoint. I would want to at least dump TotH AS procs over barrage I think.

[Azortharion]

While we can see he's certainly both well geared and playing pretty damn well, I'm still more curious about what this could potentially mean from a shot priority standpoint. I would want to at least dump TotH AS procs over barrage I think.

We always dumped AS ToTH over Barrage. We still will.

[timoseewho]

logs be private now

[jpthepope]

I have 650 ilevel and do 18k in raids. I'm not the person you should ask.

thats pretty low man, got logs maybe i can help.

[Lokrick]

Minor correction: simcraft was already modeling the serpent sting tick for each arcane. It was *not* modeling serpent sting tick that you get for arcane shot multistrikes. It is now.

[Tehterokkar]

Does it all mean by any chance that SV would sim better than MM now?

SV was already better than MM with Focusing Shot. Now even with Lone Wolf and shit talents, it is better.

[valdikaldi]

Why is survival simming so much better than MM yet all the top hunters are still MM? SV feels simpler even with focus shot

[sololux]

Probably because only 3 peices of gear have multistrike on it from highmaul.

[Lairiel]

Does this mean that (assuming AS ms's are indeed generating SS ticks) that Black arrow MS's generate extra rolls for LnL procs? IE, will a double ms proc create 3 chances for a LnL proc?

Obviously multiple simultaneous procs wouldn't stack, but the extra chance would be of huge significance...

Forgive me if this is already known, haven't touched Survival in ages until today.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, I got really curious, so I went out and spent a few hours testing.

It was too sketchy trying to parse logs or just repeatedly spamming arcane, the timestamps are too wonky, so I very carefully fired 1 arcane shot into a dummy, let a second auto shot fire, then waited for serpent to fall off.

This produced the following pattern every time

Auto Hit
Arcane Hit
Serpent Application Hit
2nd Auto Hit
Serpent Dot Tick

If there was an auto shot MS, it showed up After the Serpent application. Every time.

On the instances where Arcane had a MS proc, it looked like this

Auto Hit
Arcane Hit
Serpent Application
Arcane MS
Serpent Application
2nd Auto Hit
Serpent Dot Tick

I have pretty low MS chances, so it took a while to get even a few Arcane MS's firing one per 30 seconds or so =P But on a few lucky hits I got SS MS's off of the Arcane MS applications, resulting in this pattern.

Auto Hit
Arcane Hit
Serpent Application
Arcane MS
Serpent Application
Serpent MS
Serpent MS
2nd Auto Hit
Serpent Dot Tick

I found it interesting that MS hits always came after on hit effect applications. And I didn't have any results with and auto shot MS in addition to this, but I am curious if the Auto shot MS would have fallen before the Arcane MS, or after? It seem possible that the First Serpent MS could have come from the First serpent Application. That MS always come at the end of an event, and on hit effects jump the queue. So you could get, theoretically, something like...

auto
arcane
serpent application
auto ms
arcane ms
serpent application
arcane ms
serpent application
serpent MS X 4

Which might help explain Reals88's weird 5 hit log above. (also, i imagine the large damage swing is because some of those are crib normal ticks, and some are non crib ms's)

I didn't save any screenshots, so you'll have to take my word for it, or test it yourself, but it's working.

I also tested a few other things, with negative, or inconclusive results.

I couldn't get a LNL proc off a black arrow MS. But that could be just limited data. I can't know for sure.
I can confirm the pet invigoration proc does NOT proc off a auto shot MS crit. I also got no proc for the pet basic attack invigorate, but since that one is RNG, it might be limited data again. And I also have no idea if pet basic attack MS's are procing frenzy.

Are there any other on hit procs that are known to be working off of MS's? In other classes maybe?