1. #3481

  2. #3482
    Warchief Zenny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    We've seen six actually, and the developers confirmed that DHs use demonic fury. I'm not surprised frankly. The Demonology mechanic was perfect for a DH class, and I rightly surmised that a DH class couldn't exist as long as Warlocks had it.
    Visually we have seen three, none of them have any resemblance to Demonology abilities. Of the six listed, again nothing in common with Demonology, the only ability that has been taken is Meta (which was originally taken from Demon Hunters). This happened before with Death Knights and Death Coil. We don't even know how Meta will work for Demon Hunters.

    Demon Hunters have always been more popular than DKs.
    Based on what?

    Further, DKs didn't gut existing classes when they emerged on the scene. DKs formed a nice counter balance to Paladins, and brought true necromancy into the player classes.

    DHs rip Demo from locks, and step all over Rogues and Monks. So there's going to be some bad blood from the get go, unless Blizzard does a fantastic revamp job on those classes. If Warlocks, Rogues, and Monks are underpowered this expansion, they're going to blame the DH class.
    Demon Hunters don't step over Rogues and Monks. Just as Monks didn't step on Rogues when it was introduced to the game, each class is visually distinct and has its own lore and flavor. Rogues and Demonology are getting a revamp in this expansion and Monks certainly don't need one. Its as silly as saying Warlocks step over Mages. Both wear cloth and use Magic!

    Underpowered? Rogues and Warlocks? Funny, if anything Demon Hunter would be weaker then those classes having only one DPS spec and all.

  3. #3483
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Yogscast
    Distinguishing the Demon Hunter from Monks and Rogues will be important. Rogues are about stealth and crowd control, whereas the Demon Hunter is about in your face mobility and getting out when they are in trouble. Monks are a little more of a hybrid, with some self healing.
    Gah, as a rogue player, so gutted right now. So much of DH could have gone into rogue. Instead, they've officially declared these flavours of mechanics as out of bounds for rogue, relegating rogue just to CC/stealth. They're ruling shit out for the class that *most* suffers from samey specs, the class that is most in need of the inclusion of some diverse playstyles.

    DH tanking should have been a rework Combat rogue.

    Tinker tanking (melee or ranged), conversely, wouldn't have been an issue for Rogue, or any class. It would have been thematically fresh, and wouldn't have infringed on the domains and playstyles of other classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Sure, but no one would be playing them by the time they come out. WoW will be at least 15 years old at that point, and its age will tell. The only way I can see that happening is if they really commit to the 1 expo per year and start releasing more classes with fewer specs.
    All the more reason to be gutted about DH plundering Rogue; it'll likely never get the diversity it could have now.

    So much salt.

  4. #3484
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    Ha! Let me ask you. What kind of expansion would this fit? How would it impact the game?

    Yeah... thats the thing. This is a gnome/goblin thing. If theres an expansion based on those i imagine the outcry will be bigger than in pandaria.

  5. #3485
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    Ha! Let me ask you. What kind of expansion would this fit? How would it impact the game?

    Yeah... thats the thing. This is a gnome/goblin thing. If theres an expansion based on those i imagine the outcry will be bigger than in pandaria.
    And MoP ended up being one of the best WoW expansions in recent memory.

    Just goes to show that the fanbase doesn't know what it really wants.

  6. #3486
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And MoP ended up being one of the best WoW expansions in recent memory.

    Just goes to show that the fanbase doesn't know what it really wants.
    As we have seen that doesnt matter. What matters is the perception during its lifetime.

    I totally agree with you though. I have no problem with more positively themed expansions.

  7. #3487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    Ha! Let me ask you. What kind of expansion would this fit? How would it impact the game?

    Yeah... thats the thing. This is a gnome/goblin thing. If theres an expansion based on those i imagine the outcry will be bigger than in pandaria.
    Azshara/naga/south seas xpac. Steampunk, island hopping, sea adventure. Naga as primary enemy, with all their steamworks-style tech bases. Tinkers as new class. Airships, steamboats, cannons, flintlocks, and more.

    Tinker definitely shouldn't be a gnome/goblin thing. Almost every race laready has an iconic tech style:
    • Draenei have floaty crystalline magitech. They arrived in a spaceship.
    • Humans have brass and steel, aquiline, steampunk, streamlined tech. Look at their eagle-shaped cannons and steamboats.
    • Dwarves live in a giant subterrranean industrial complex, and make most of the Alliances siege machinery. Their engineering looks heavy, cast iron, and well made.
    • Worgen have a very victorian aesthetic, look at their rifles. A lot of new ground would need to be made, but victorian tech would fit.
    • Gnomes have raygun gothic tech.
    • Orcs have that dark spikey iron tech. Hellscreamesque. Look at most of the Horde's siege machinery.
    • Blood Elves have floaty arcane magitech, historically with corrupted fel aspects, more recently with holy elements. Take a stroll around Silvermoon, the city with magitech golem guards, floating towers, teleportation orbs, and chained demon crystals everywhere. All powered by a holy-arcane megareactor.
    • Forsaken have that Dr Jekyll, gothic horror, frankenstein necrotech. Bubbling chemistry sets, abominations, and mad scientists.
    • Goblins have OH&S non-compliant rocket bomb tech.

  8. #3488
    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    Azshara/naga/south seas xpac. Steampunk, island hopping, sea adventure. Naga as primary enemy, with all their steamworks-style tech bases. Tinkers as new class. Airships, steamboats, cannons, flintlocks, and more.

    Tinker definitely shouldn't be a gnome/goblin thing. Almost every race laready has an iconic tech style:
    • Draenei have floaty crystalline magitech. They arrived in a spaceship.
    • Humans have brass and steel, aquiline, steampunk, streamlined tech. Look at their eagle-shaped cannons and steamboats.
    • Dwarves live in a giant subterrranean industrial complex, and make most of the Alliances siege machinery. Their engineering looks heavy, cast iron, and well made.
    • Worgen have a very victorian aesthetic, look at their rifles. A lot of new ground would need to be made, but victorian tech would fit.
    • Gnomes have raygun gothic tech.
    • Orcs have that dark spikey iron tech. Hellscreamesque. Look at most of the Horde's siege machinery.
    • Blood Elves have floaty arcane magitech, historically with corrupted fel aspects, more recently with holy elements. Take a stroll around Silvermoon, the city with magitech golem guards, floating towers, teleportation orbs, and chained demon crystals everywhere. All powered by a holy-arcane megareactor.
    • Forsaken have that Dr Jekyll, gothic horror, frankenstein necrotech. Bubbling chemistry sets, abominations, and mad scientists.
    • Goblins have OH&S non-compliant rocket bomb tech.
    I've argued for the very same thing. I think it would be a fantastic idea. I don't think it would be very popular though, no matter how well designed you think it is.

    Simply put, this class isn't iconic enough to Warcraft to separate itself from Gnome/Goblin themes. It's a fresh and familiar idea, but it doesn't have a strong iconic basis within Warcraft that people can easily attach to. Same reasoning applied with Monks, which were also fresh and familiar.

    You won't escape the obvious Goblin/Gnome aesthetics of this class. Technology is tied to them just as all of a Monk's themes are tied to Pandarens, no matter what race you use. Same with Paladins and being tied to the Holy Light, regardless of what race you use. Lore elements will always tie Paladins back to that religion, just look at their choice Artifact and their Class Order Hall. It's inescapable, and it's a drawback for a Tinker class. As a first impression, the idea of a 'Gnome/Goblin class' will put a lot of people off, regardless of alternative tech. You can tell people 'it's different', but first impressions always stay. Just look at Demon Hunters, you can't escape from a 'oh they're Warlock/Rogues' impression, even though they aren't.

    I'm not arguing against a Tinker. I simply don't believe the audience will be as accepting of the class as I would.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2015-08-12 at 06:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  9. #3489
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    Ha! Let me ask you. What kind of expansion would this fit? How would it impact the game?

    Yeah... thats the thing. This is a gnome/goblin thing. If theres an expansion based on those i imagine the outcry will be bigger than in pandaria.
    Goblins were added in an expansion that had a giant dragon as a final boss. If they want to add something, it gets added. This is not mentioning the quotient of every expansion so far that's been dedicated to engineering. It'll be a fun exercise to count the robots that are going to show up in Legion. With that said, "more gnome/goblin lore" has been one of the more commonly requested things I've seen lately.

    Anyway, if you want an entirely theoretical example, there's one I wrote up for fun a while back on the official forums.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...0617013?page=1

  10. #3490
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    Guys, knock it off with being rude to each other. Discuss the topic itself.
    or better yet stop posting "tinker, tinker oh i wanna tinker" threads.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MurlocWarlock View Post
    Can the random new class threads die for the next 16 months?
    murlocwarlock for president. these threads are very annoying, made even more annoying by the fact that many of the people that post them are doing so only to troll serious players and doubly so by those who actually take this seriously.......
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  11. #3491
    I like the idea of tinkers, perhaps only goblins and gnomes.

  12. #3492
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    I've argued for the very same thing. I think it would be a fantastic idea. I don't think it would be very popular though, no matter how well designed you think it is.

    Simply put, this class isn't iconic enough to Warcraft to separate itself from Gnome/Goblin themes. It's a fresh and familiar idea, but it doesn't have a strong iconic basis within Warcraft that people can easily attach to. Same reasoning applied with Monks, which were also fresh and familiar.

    You won't escape the obvious Goblin/Gnome aesthetics of this class. Technology is tied to them just as all of a Monk's themes are tied to Pandarens, no matter what race you use. Same with Paladins and being tied to the Holy Light, regardless of what race you use. Lore elements will always tie Paladins back to that religion, just look at their choice Artifact and their Class Order Hall. It's inescapable, and it's a drawback for a Tinker class. As a first impression, the idea of a 'Gnome/Goblin class' will put a lot of people off, regardless of alternative tech. You can tell people 'it's different', but first impressions always stay. Just look at Demon Hunters, you can't escape from a 'oh they're Warlock/Rogues' impression, even though they aren't.

    I'm not arguing against a Tinker. I simply don't believe the audience will be as accepting of the class as I would.
    I'd agree, though not everything Blizzard releases is iconic. MoP, for instance, pandaren and monk were hardly central to the brand. With them, I actually would have much preferred if they took the time and effort to come up with race-specific monk lore, instead of just putting a Pandaren NPC in each starting zone. Give each race it's own martial art and animated fight style; trolls could do capoeira, humans could box, Nelves do Taekwondo, goblins do dirty street fighting, dwarves brawl, stuff like that. Have it that these classes always existed, you just hadn't heard of them till now - tie it in with the brawlers guild. But they didn't do that for the same reason they wouldn't bother to include racial specific tech themes to tinker: CBF'd, near enough is good enough, lack of vision, cost cutting, whatever. Either way, I'd like to see it.

  13. #3493
    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    I'd agree, though not everything Blizzard releases is iconic. MoP, for instance, pandaren and monk were hardly central to the brand. With them, I actually would have much preferred if they took the time and effort to come up with race-specific monk lore, instead of just putting a Pandaren NPC in each starting zone. Give each race it's own martial art and animated fight style; trolls could do capoeira, humans could box, Nelves do Taekwondo, goblins do dirty street fighting, dwarves brawl, stuff like that. Have it that these classes always existed, you just hadn't heard of them till now - tie it in with the brawlers guild. But they didn't do that for the same reason they wouldn't bother to include racial specific tech themes to tinker: CBF'd, near enough is good enough, lack of vision, cost cutting, whatever. Either way, I'd like to see it.
    I've stated it many times before, but MoP was chosen to appeal to the rising asian MMO market. If anything, they wanted to make Chen and the Monk class become an iconic part of Warcraft as a response to fan popularity. It bit em in the ass though, and that's why they're reverted to familiar Warcraft standards instead of taking a risk to see something 'new'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  14. #3494
    Titan Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Saw this on the WoW reddit. Perfectly envisions my idea of what a Tinker looks like.

    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/the-dwarf-mortar

  15. #3495
    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    Saw this on the WoW reddit. Perfectly envisions my idea of what a Tinker looks like.

    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/the-dwarf-mortar
    That's amazing.

  16. #3496
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    Saw this on the WoW reddit. Perfectly envisions my idea of what a Tinker looks like.

    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/the-dwarf-mortar
    Wow, that's really excellent.

  17. #3497
    Titan Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Wow, that's really excellent.
    Replace the mortar with a ranged weapon and you've got yourself my idea. In fact, mortars would play a big part in a Tinker's AoE rotation.

    I like the idea of Tinkers having a little walkie-talkie that they use to call in various artillery strikes and support kits that would parachute from the sky and need to be picked up (think Angelic Feathers only health, mana, +10% damage boosts etc.)

    The character speaks into a little device, you hear Goblin/Gnome laughing gibberish on the other end, then the whoooooooooooooo- sound effect of a bomb dropping through the sky, then big explosions occur on screen.

  18. #3498
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Sure, but no one would be playing them by the time they come out. WoW will be at least 15 years old at that point, and its age will tell. The only way I can see that happening is if they really commit to the 1 expo per year and start releasing more classes with fewer specs.
    No MMO with a high player count has lasted this long. Plenty will be left playing WoW until Blizzard stops releasing expansions. One expac per year isn't necessary if they provide the same as TBC, WotLK, and MoP.
    Last edited by Polybius; 2015-08-13 at 06:55 PM.

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