Has the increased accessibility of raids since LFR has made the game better or worse?

[Deleted]

As a long-time seasoned raider and PvPer who has played at both the hardcore high-ends of the game and the casual low-ends of the game, it is my opinion that raiding has simply become less fun ever since the introduction of LFR. Recycling raids multiple times at different difficulties, only having the differences in items yielded by bosses being in their ilvl has made the game lose much of its mystique.

In the Burning Crusade, I remember being in awe of high-end gear gotten by top-level players. I recall being really excited to complete Karazhan just to get Hellscream's Axe. But if TBC was filtered through the LFR model, then I could've simply gotten the axe, albeit at a lower item level, through something as mind-numbingly monotonous and easy as LFR.

This simply makes the game less enjoyable for both casuals and high-tier players, not just high-tier players. Part of the inherent mystique of the game laid in the desire of casuals to strive to reach the level that high-tier players found themselves at. This is rapidly being removed from the game.

A second example lies in PvP. The removal of T2 gear simply accelerated this process even further.

More and more of this game's intrinsic mystique is being stripped by an increasingly haphazard Blizzard that no longer makes good long-term decisions, but only short-term decisions to please fiscal shareholders. This is not good for the health of the game that we all love.

Dear Blizzard, you are killing the game with your antics. The initial catering to casuals was good for the game, but you have taken it far too overboard. Stop.

[Holyyoloswag]

then I could've simply gotten the axe, albeit at a lower item level, through something as mind-numbingly monotonous and easy as LFR.

Wrong. Items gained from Highmaul LFR are completely different names and models than from Normal, Heroic, and Mythic. It's a completely optional raid for casuals who want some easy low ilvl loot. I don't see the problem keeping it, it's released later than normal and serves as a good catch-up mechanic for people who start later.

[Vordie]

Why do you Value loot so highly?

For most hardcore raiders the real beauty of raiding lies in KILLING a boss that you've been stuck on for 2 weeks, not LOOTING that boss.

LFR has made people who have less time to enjoy the game still be able to get a full expansion experience lore and instance wise, without taking away anything from the hardcore raiders. Mythic is still hard, and being able to clear a mythic raid instance still feels really really rewarding.

[Deleted]

Wrong. Items gained from Highmaul LFR are completely different names and models than from Normal, Heroic, and Mythic. It's a completely optional raid for casuals who want some easy low ilvl loot. I don't see the problem keeping it, it's released later than normal and serves as a good catch-up mechanic for people who start later.

I just think lairing different difficulties on raids is asinine and only enhances gameplay when done Ulduar-style with unique hardmodes on each boss for bonus loot.

There is a reason why a ton of people are running out of things to do this early in WoD. Blizzard is tuning everything down, as Ghostcrawler famously said after he left.

[Deleted]

Why do you Value loot so highly?

For most hardcore raiders the real beauty of raiding lies in KILLING a boss that you've been stuck on for 2 weeks, not LOOTING that boss.

LFR has made people who have less time to enjoy the game still be able to get a full expansion experience lore and instance wise, without taking away anything from the hardcore raiders. Mythic is still hard, and being able to clear a mythic raid instance still feels really really rewarding.

This is just false. I was a hardcore raider during Ulduar, and there was nothing that topped the feeling you got when you got a hard-mode loot item that no one else in the game even had access to, like the ilvl 232 Runesword or the ilvl 246 sword or the hard-mode Aesir's Edge (I remember getting that and be so stoked).

Blizzard is really not doing themselves any favors by dumbing the game down to this current level and beyond. It is killing the game and it is why people fall out so quickly. They just released an expansion and people are already complaining about a lack of things to do. This NEVER happened during WotLK or TBC or even Cataclysm.

[Holyyoloswag]

I just think lairing different difficulties on raids is asinine and only enhances gameplay when done Ulduar-style with unique hardmodes on each boss for bonus loot.

There is a reason why a ton of people are running out of things to do this early in WoD. Blizzard is tuning everything down, as Ghostcrawler famously said after he left.

Can you give some reasoning as to why you think it's asinine to have different difficulty tiers? If you don't like the tiers then only do one tier, it's pretty simple.

[Deleted]

Can you give some reasoning as to why you think it's asinine to have different difficulty tiers? If you don't like the tiers then only do one tier, it's pretty simple.

It's simply bad game design because it aims to recycle content for different levels of effort investment, and the only difference is mostly the ilvl on the loot received. That is simply not enough of an upward incentive to make people strive to be the best that they can be at this game.

The fact that there are less and less hardcore raiding guilds every single day speaks for itself on this issue. Back in WotLK, hardcore raiding guilds (I used to be in Vox Radix, which was #20 world) were everywhere, at least a few on each server, but that is no longer the case.

Recycling content at varying difficulties for different player demographics simply leads to disillusionment amongst ALL of the catered-to demographics, from casuals to hardcore high tier players.

[Civfanata]

It's simply bad game design because it aims to recycle content for different levels of effort investment, and the only difference is mostly the ilvl on the loot received. That is simply not enough of an upward incentive to make people strive to be the best that they can be at this game.

The fact that there are less and less hardcore raiding guilds every single day speaks for itself on this issue. Back in WotLK, hardcore raiding guilds (I used to be in Vox Radix, which was #20 world) were everywhere, at least a few on each server, but that is no longer the case.

Recycling content at varying difficulties for different player demographics simply leads to disillusionment amongst ALL of the catered-to demographics, from casuals to hardcore high tier players.

Maybe its the user base is getting older... maybe they are tired of the I "work" for weeks to get xyz boss down and xyz loot... when all the loot is is just bigger numbers....maybe the people that organize the raid groups are burned out.. maybe.. Idk... ramble on!

[Potassiumgluconate]

It's definitely better.

Ever since late cataclysm, more people are able to experience the content of the game. You can experience the game's story, you can get better gear than if you were quarantined to doing heroic dungeons. And the best part of all?

For the first time in this game's history, I actually want to do 'real' raiding.

[Deleted]

in TBC the game was new and had FAR less to do than what is available now. You think people are going to stick around doing long-ass, group-required attunements just to see the inside of a raid? Or grind rep just to get access to a heroic dungeon? What fantasy world are you living on? People didn't seem to care being stuck at a 115 ilvl in BC cause the game itself was still relatively new. If they went to the bullshit BC model now you can guarantee subs will drop off by bucket loads. The real question is why do people like you, whom HAVE the challenging content available to them, insist on 1) not doing it, 2) thinking no one should be allowed to do easier stuff like LFR/normal 3) have the audacity to think things will get better if they can be catered to like a special little snowflake for doing what is currently MEDIOCRE PERFORMANCE. Go get your mythic gear and titles, what is stopping you? HOw many others will have it? Very few while it's current. They even offer unique gear sets for mythic. If you want it, it's there. Stop demanding the top and bottom be lopped off and YOUR mediocre level be put back on a pedestal like it was in BC, where available time and law of averages determined success, not actual ability.

The sub numbers speak for themselves, regardless of your speculative attempts at obfuscating the issue. I am angry about being a high-level player, yet only doing the same content as the lowest-time-investing casual player. What's the point of me playing as hard as I do and being as good as I am if I get access to the same content? A few extra stats and different item levels do not cut it. No one cares about those things much, really.

Blizzard did good by catering to casuals a bit in WotLK, but they took it WAY overboard in both PvE and PvP and the game is DYING NOW AS A RESULT.

[oldgeezer]

Blizzard is really not doing themselves any favors by dumbing the game down to this current level and beyond. It is killing the game and it is why people fall out so quickly. They just released an expansion and people are already complaining about a lack of things to do. This NEVER happened during WotLK or TBC or even Cataclysm.

The irony is I spent months collecting tier sets on main and alts through LFR in MOP. I enjoyed doing that; no guild drama or bullshit, no time commitments.

Now that tier is gone from WoD-LFR I have little/no incentive to run LFR and I sure as hell aren't getting back into more organised forms of raiding. Even the PUGs appearing in group finder have unrealistic ilvl + achievement requirements (surprise...).

[Deleted]

I just think lairing different difficulties on raids is asinine and only enhances gameplay when done Ulduar-style with unique hardmodes on each boss for bonus loot.

There is a reason why a ton of people are running out of things to do this early in WoD. Blizzard is tuning everything down, as Ghostcrawler famously said after he left.

Ah, so your problem is not that LFRers can get loot. Because, as it's already been said, LFR has its own models, and they are common per armor-type, not even class-specific. And Mythic also has its own model for the tier armor, not just a recolor of the normal/heroic tier armor.

Your issue is not, then, that people cannot be excited about reaching the highest difficulty to get the cool looking gear. Your issue is that people get to see the content at all.

[Deleted]

It's definitely better.

Ever since late cataclysm, more people are able to experience the content of the game. You can experience the game's story, you can get better gear than if you were quarantined to doing heroic dungeons. And the best part of all?

For the first time in this game's history, I actually want to do 'real' raiding.

It's definitely better? Is that why gameplay is observably deteriorating and people are leaving and subs are dropping rapidly?

- - - Updated - - -

Ah, so your problem is not that LFRers can get loot. Because, as it's already been said, LFR has its own models, and they are common per armor-type, not even class-specific. And Mythic also has its own model for the tier armor, not just a recolor of the normal/heroic tier armor.

Your issue is not, then, that people cannot be excited about reaching the highest difficulty to get the cool looking gear. Your issue is that people get to see the content at all.

It's not just that the LFRers can get loot, but that is one of the problems, yes. LFR should not have loot.

[Darsithis]

Creating a new account to post what is essentially the same thread after you get banned isn't allowed here