The post your Sub opener thread

[shaithis]

Opener does not matter as long as you use cooldowns asap. I generally just double amboosh yolo it these days.

[Deleted]

It is how ever funny tho to see your DPS sky rocket in the start to like 70k, keeping up a solid 40k dps after that also tends to be more easy. So a good opener isn't essential, however it does make sub fun to play.

I haven't tried the hemo-ambus-hemo-ambus rot opener yet, will try it. I do however feel that anticipation is a waste if you can control your CP, MFD gives a free evi/rupture/SND and is a good outcome to your rot at times.

[Ohmygonzo]

This opener is my default one, if no BL/Hero on start.

1. 5 sec timer premed
2. 1 sec timer SnD + prepot
3. Garrote
4. Ambush
5. Hemo + wait one CP from HoT
6. Rupture
7. Build up CP's with anticipation
8. Rupture + SnD refreshed
9. Dance with a garrote opener again
10. Spam ambush + eviscerate ( not worrying about rupture here, i have garrote on )
11. Dance ends, i have two finishers, apply rupture, eviscerate ( I still have a lot left on SnD, since i refreshed it before dance )
12. Continue rotation ( vanish after Find Weakness is off > Garrote > ambush > rotation > prep + vanish > rinse repeat )

Anything I should improve here?

[Moejahi3d]

Why are you delaying shadow dance that Much and building cp? And why open with garrote again when you have your debuffs anyway?
Dunno but I think you should pop cd's after the garrote-ambush-ambush opener(if you are Rolling with subterfuge) reflection rupture -dance.

[Ohmygonzo]

Why are you delaying shadow dance that Much and building cp? And why open with garrote again when you have your debuffs anyway?
Dunno but I think you should pop cd's after the garrote-ambush-ambush opener(if you are Rolling with subterfuge) reflection rupture -dance.

Find weakness comes off exactly when i build up 10 cps for rupture > snd into dance, so i don't waste any combo points on refreshing too early.
I don't have veins before garrote, which improves damage on my next ambush, and it is a bleed effect which is affected by my mastery.

[Moejahi3d]

I understand the first garrote but dont understand the second one. Rupture should be up anyway.
And isnt it better to clip findweakness so you can get your cooldowns runnning again? Instead of waiting and building up cp while your find weakness from the opener is runnning out. And where do you use the reflection?

[Ohmygonzo]

I understand the first garrote but dont understand the second one. Rupture should be up anyway.
And isnt it better to clip findweakness so you can get your cooldowns runnning again? Instead of waiting and building up cp while your find weakness from the opener is runnning out. And where do you use the reflection?

The rupture i refreshed before dance, will usually run out during dance, i have kromog trinket tied to dance, and a lot of multistrike also.
Yeah, forgot to mention, reflection is macroed with trinket and dance also. It goes SR > Trinket > dance.

Tell me if I am doing anything wrong here? Should i break the first find weakness for a faster dance, or should i sacrifice that only on BL pulls?

[KiwifruitOCE]

Tell me if I am doing anything wrong here? Should i break the first find weakness for a faster dance, or should i sacrifice that only on BL pulls?

Yes. Just use CDs after rupture.

Reason being your on-hit trinkets/ring will proc in the first 3 seconds 99 times out of 100, you want those procs up in your dance/reflection window.

[Smaxy]

Extending the first FW takes away MoS and possible ring/trinket procs from your SD phase (spambush) and, assuming you are correctly using Vanish, Subterfuge, and Preparation, may overlap your last FW phase from your 2nd Vanish with your 2nd SD (which you want to cast ASAP, so your 3rd SD aligns perfectly with SR and to maximum uptime) Ideally, if you should have 6-10 seconds before your 2nd Vanish FW ends and before your 2nd SD comes up; you can use this time to make sure you are heading into 2nd SD with SnD and Rupture up, as well as 60 energy and as many CP as possible. The variation in 6-10 depends on how you spam Backstab during FW and whether you wait for more than 60 energy to Vanish-> Ambush.

[Saorix]

Typical opener for me is:

Equip T15 2p before pull timer
Premed at 10s left on pull timer
SnD at 2-3s
re-equip regular gear
Pre-pot at 1s~
Garrote
Ambush
Dance+SR+Trinkets/Racial
Ambush
Rupture
Begin normal Dance rotation.

T15 2p probably makes little difference here but I like it enough to merit using it.