"Ideal stats" and Soft caps

[dcifrths]

quick question here. i think my stats are a bit off. i tried linking to my guy via armory but apparently i can't link anything yet (need to post more). it's "DcifrThs-Ysera"

not sure why it says 680 equipped as i'm 684 equipped. anyways, my stats are:

multi: 17.71% (1169)
mast: 50.3% (1579)
haste: 5.52% (403)-> but i do have the meaty trink, so that does boost that quite a bit when it procs. jumps to 31% and 2700ish when it procs.
crit: 22.16% (788)
vers: 4.46% (580)

i ran my sim and scaled it and that's the order that i get my weights in and it ranges from 0.46 down to 0.38 so as w/ standard weights, not a big difference. it seems that haste is very low though. so i was thinking of re-enchanting/re-gemming my gear to move multi to haste (currently i'm gemmed/ench mostly to multistrike).

that said, it doesn't seem that would be a large impact since at amr if i move from my scaled/custom weights to the 'standard weights' (which puts mastery and haste higher), it's a 0.31% change...which is super small.

so should i not worry so much about haste since throughout any encounter, focus fire and the meaty trink kinda on avg take care of it?

[waat]

why are you gemmed multi in the first place as bm

[Kwaai]

why are you gemmed multi in the first place as bm

Probably plays SV on a significant number of fights, and multi is still very good for BM. Certainly better for BM than mastery is for SV.

[Jantof]

Haste is a very poor stat for pure single target, which is probably why it has haste as so low. As soon as you start adding multiple targets, haste leapfrogs in value. This, coupled with the fact that most of the encounters inn the current tier have multiple targets, is why the community places such higher value on haste than the single target sims would show.

[waat]

Probably plays SV on a significant number of fights, and multi is still very good for BM. Certainly better for BM than mastery is for SV.

If that was the case I doubt he would even consider gemming/enchanting haste then...

[dcifrths]

first, thanks for the replies guys.

1. why i gem multi-> here's the scaling output from my old sim (when i posted this thread):
Agi 1.00
Weapon DPS 0.96
Multi 0.46
Mast 0.42
Crit 0.40
Haste 0.39
Vers 0.38

2. looks like azortharion solved this for me though:

Universal (recommended):
Agility 1.00
AttackPower 0.90
MainHandDps 0.74
Mastery 0.48
Haste 0.47
Multistrike 0.45
CriticalStrike 0.42
Versatility 0.41

now, this goes back to my mastery cap question. how much mastery should i go for before i'd start gemming/enchanting haste?

[Dhryke]

Another case of using SimC and then taking the information it gives you wrong. You can't just sim your current setup, look at scale factors, and then call it day.

[dcifrths]

Another case of using SimC and then taking the information it gives you wrong. You can't just sim your current setup, look at scale factors, and then call it day.

can you expand a bit on this? specifically why is that the case (where a simulation leads to a suboptimal usage of the resulting scaled stat weights)?

thanks!

[SlippyCheeze]

now, this goes back to my mastery cap question. how much mastery should i go for before i'd start gemming/enchanting haste?

There is no point which, at current gear levels, you will hit any meaningful soft or hard cap for any stat. Even if you did, haste is the first one you would hit; mastery has no meaningful cap since it just multiplies pet damage and stuff, and that can go past 100 percent happily...

Anyway, yes, Azor's guide has weights that are balanced between single and multi target stuff, and I suggest you use those, and pay no real attention to caps of any sort.

[dombow]

Why are people so adamantly stubborn about there being caps? I get that there might have been caps before but really.. Especially this early into an expansion, people think we would already be at some preordained cap?

[Menia]

Why are people so adamantly stubborn about there being caps? I get that there might have been caps before but really.. Especially this early into an expansion, people think we would already be at some preordained cap?

There are no caps but the scaling is definitely not linear so you could say there an infinite amount of caps at which stats factors change.
If this wasn't true then azor would not have updated his stat factors when the +5 ilvl boost was introduced.
You could also derive from the above that there is actually different & better stat factors for those with access to only 685 gear.

I think the only way to actually measure and graph these things would be to simulate using STATS and not gear sets. According to the results you should then determine stat factors and choose your gear (with respect to accessible ilvl which determines overall stats).
Truth be told, that would be a lot of work for a marginal gain..

[SlippyCheeze]

There are no caps but the scaling is definitely not linear so you could say there an infinite amount of caps at which stats factors change.
If this wasn't true then azor would not have updated his stat factors when the +5 ilvl boost was introduced.
You could also derive from the above that there is actually different & better stat factors for those with access to only 685 gear.

I think the only way to actually measure and graph these things would be to simulate using STATS and not gear sets. According to the results you should then determine stat factors and choose your gear (with respect to accessible ilvl which determines overall stats).
Truth be told, that would be a lot of work for a marginal gain..

Yeah, it's true, all stats have diminishing returns: each point you add is worth (marginally) less that the previous point -- the same way that those one percent drop chance mounts never *quite* hit a hundred percent chance of having dropped, but they get asymptotically closer as you try more times.

So there is some virtue in, eg, balancing stats that are close, as the numbers get higher. A really, really clever bit of math could probably even figure out when you wanted to move from "stack mastery" to "balance mastery and haste", but honestly, I don't think we are even close enough to the point that these diminishing returns are worth caring about, nor will we be any time soon.

[Nobullraider]

Even with 2600 mastery???

[SlippyCheeze]

Yes, even with 2600 mastery. Your pet can happily do 110 percent of it's base damage.