Help Our Fury Warrior (With Logs)

[Broccoliz]

Hey brilliant and wise smarty pantses of MMO Champion. I am the raid leader of my 9/10 Heroic BRF team, and am posting for a few of our members to try and improve their DPS output as we prepare for the checks of Mythic. I would very much appreciate ANY tips or suggestions you can give to our TG Fury warrior (Scottsummers). Here are two log examples, one from a farm night where his rotation is more solid, and one from heroic Blackhand where he is less comfortable and thus struggles to maintain the rotation.

Farm Night -
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...Bqm93K#boss=-2

Heroic Blackhand Night -
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1704&wipes=1

His struggle is that on bosses he is very comfortable with, he can stand still and be near the boss at all times. The less comfortable he is, the less he is able to stay on the boss and maintain his rotation. I don't know warriors AT ALL so am asking kindly for you to all chip in and offer some refinement tips. What is he not doing (enough)? What should he change up? I think getting some weak auras for rotation reminders could help, but without knowing warriors I can't identify where the gap is.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

[Valech]

have you tried the sticky dedicated to log analysis?

Regarding Blackhand I can tell, that warriors are at a pretty bad spot. They have a bad time dealing damage due to bad uptime.

[Accendor]

I have not looked in the logs but be aware that blackhand is the most screwed up fight for warriors in the whole expension so far. It is not impossible to do decent DPS of course but it is a really, really annoying fight with many downtimes for him (because of movement).

[Burynerds]

Maybe someone else can go a bit more in depth but his gruul attempt was fairly good. I think that he should likely be playing sudden death however as it is much easier to not miss damage. It looks like he lost at least a couple of raging blows and capped on rage at least 3 times in the opener. Not a ton of damage to be gained but it is something.

On Blackhand he is 3rd overall to the boss on some of your better attempts. The people ahead of him mostly have damage to the siegemaker which takes double damage so its clear they will pull ahead some in phase 2. Also warriors best phase is execute so comparing him to lower execute or no execute classes while progressing is very misleading. The times you did make it to execute you wiped fairly quickly and he didn't get a lot of up time during it. Seems to be doing alright for heroic. Room for improvement but I am not seeing any drastic rotational mistakes on gruul/blackhand.

[Accendor]

Regarding Sudden Death: On Fights like Blackhand it is much easier to lose Damage because of SD since you can easily miss the opportunity to use your proc because of the massive movement all the time. Wild Strikes makes you much more flexible here, even if you get rage capped at some point. This argument does not apply to bosses like gruul ofc.

[clubnp]

Honestly he's doing OKAY as a warrior on Blackhand, the fight sucks for warriors.

[Broccoliz]

Thank you so much for the feedback so far. He is definitely a great raider, in SoO especially once he had tons of experience on the bosses he could blow away DPS. I just want to be able to call out the tiny mistakes he is making due to boss insanity and help bump up his dps a few k's if possible. The tips given so far are little things but those are exactly what I am looking for, so thank you!! Please, keep the suggestions coming if you see anything else in the logs. He really wants to know and improve.

[AnotherJaggens]

If you look at your best pull for Blackhand Heroic, he is number 3. This is what you are supposed to be looking at Blackhand, it's absolutely fine.

That said, I really wonder what makes him pick up Siegebreaker and Bloodbath for that fight. And Stormbolt on top. Strange talent choice, what's his crit chance?

[Accendor]

Stormbolt is a valid option since you can do damage while moving. Dragon Roar would be the other option but the use of it depends on the damage that is done to the adds upstairs. Taking Stormbolt for this fight helps to minimize downtimes and not used abilities and also the chance to use your CD wrong. Siegebreaker is ofc a strange choice and I think he would be off way better with Anger Management.
That said Bloodbath or Avatar are not that much afar from each other, as long as he doesn't hava a Scabbard somewhere.

[Aldis]

He's currently running Seigebreaker and BB, which probably aren't the best choices. I'm guessing he's also running furious strikes. Personally, I hate the spamminess (is that a word?) of it, and you can still use Sudden Death, since charge and heroic leap mobility mean you shouldn't be wasting any of those procs... Then again, I'm a warrior. Warriors execute. Execute is fun.

With Vial (on-use trinket with 2min CD), he should try Anger Management and Avatar, as these are easy to line up on Blackhand. AM will reduce the CD of Recklessness from 3min to about 2:15-ish. That means you're only delaying your trinket use by about 15-20sec and you can pair it with the Crit bonus from Recklessness and buff from Avatar. The CD reduction also works on Avatar, and you'll be able to use an extra Avatar between each Recklessness.

With that set up, and depending on the raid's DPS, you should get a Recklessness in each phase (save the last one for execute), but extra uses of Avatar in between.

[apoe]

Under 20% he should only use Bloodsurge procs and full on execute. On gruul for example I see him using Raging Blow still(sub 20%)

Correct me if I'm wrong, you still use RB in execute phase because it has higher damage per rage than execute. Execute becomes the rage dump, bloodsurge is free damage and should still be used (unless rage capped), and RB is used when at low rage.

I play TG though, SMF may be different. In MOP, SMF executes hit much harder than TG's, so there may be a difference.

Also, there's nothing wrong with siegebreaker on Blackhand or any primarily single target fight. Depending on fight length it can be more DPS than AM, though this is not counting trinket lineups. Storm bolt is also common/optimal for single target, not sure why people point that out as a 'weird talent choice'. Even if you are on stands, unless you get a lucky add spawn and they are all clustered together, dragon roar will typically hit 2 targets maximum with how spread the adds are.

At 684 ilvl, 39k dps on gruul is not that impressive for that fight length. 3:30 is almost perfect for warriors if you are not running AM, should be doing a few thousand more on average (I'm aware of RNG, but he had pretty average RNG that fight).

Looking at farm logs, his DPS on any non patchwerk style fight seems really low. Dps in low 30k at that ilvl is poor. How did he only have 77% uptime on oregorger when he didn't die? Same thing with Hans and Frans, 88% uptime with no death. On blast furnace his damage was horrible because he played fury that fight and did not talent bladestorm (??). He also did not use +6% interrupt damage glyph on that fight when there's 1 million things that can be interrupted for a near constant 6% bonus damage. In fact he only had 2 interrupts for all of blast furnace while doing less than 30k dps, is he a clicker?

Just skimming logs, looks like he's bad at multitasking. No one cares about target dummy dps or patchwerk dps (gruul), being able to do your rotation optimally while doing boss mechanics is the most important thing in raiding, especially in mythic.

[venomancer]

Yeah, his DPS seems to go down by a large amount on heavy movement fights. If he practices that up and makes a few talent changes / adapts to each fight, he'll probably start doing better.
Sudden death is, in my opinion on every situation better than furious strikes. It's better on heavy movement fight for obvious reasons and it also interacts better with any amount of latency you may have, given how awkward and not-smooth-at-all the "gcd" on wild strike can be. The rotation with Sudden Death is also a bit more straightforward, which would help you deal with boss' mechanics, since you'd be taking a bit of attention away from the rotation.

[Alphabrain]

I went Scabbard+Horn with Siegebreaker and Avatar for our H Blackhand attempts and did 33k. Not sure if thats good or not but 24k is too low for H Blackhand imo.
Siegebreaker and the Avatar+Scabbard combo is probably the best choice since this fight is so long, my opener Siegebreaker crit for 180k =O

[Selenti]

Under 20% he should only use Bloodsurge procs and full on execute. On gruul for example I see him using Raging Blow still(sub 20%)

Raging Blow is okay to use in Execute phase if you are starving on rage, I wouldn't put it in the "never use at 20%" category, it's just something you should resort to after BT, no wildsurge procs, at low rage. Better to do a RB than an empty GCD.

Correct me if I'm wrong, you still use RB in execute phase because it has higher damage per rage than execute. Execute becomes the rage dump, bloodsurge is free damage and should still be used (unless rage capped), and RB is used when at low rage.

I play TG though, SMF may be different. In MOP, SMF executes hit much harder than TG's, so there may be a difference.

Also, there's nothing wrong with siegebreaker on Blackhand or any primarily single target fight. Depending on fight length it can be more DPS than AM, though this is not counting trinket lineups. Storm bolt is also common/optimal for single target, not sure why people point that out as a 'weird talent choice'. Even if you are on stands, unless you get a lucky add spawn and they are all clustered together, dragon roar will typically hit 2 targets maximum with how spread the adds are.

At 684 ilvl, 39k dps on gruul is not that impressive for that fight length. 3:30 is almost perfect for warriors if you are not running AM, should be doing a few thousand more on average (I'm aware of RNG, but he had pretty average RNG that fight).

Looking at farm logs, his DPS on any non patchwerk style fight seems really low. Dps in low 30k at that ilvl is poor. How did he only have 77% uptime on oregorger when he didn't die? Same thing with Hans and Frans, 88% uptime with no death. On blast furnace his damage was horrible because he played fury that fight and did not talent bladestorm (??). He also did not use +6% interrupt damage glyph on that fight when there's 1 million things that can be interrupted for a near constant 6% bonus damage. In fact he only had 2 interrupts for all of blast furnace while doing less than 30k dps, is he a clicker?

Just skimming logs, looks like he's bad at multitasking. No one cares about target dummy dps or patchwerk dps (gruul), being able to do your rotation optimally while doing boss mechanics is the most important thing in raiding, especially in mythic.

I second all of this (especially stormbolt and siegebreaker being fine talent choices on a fight like Blackhand), but the Blast Furnace part is... sketchy, at best. Yeah, Bladestorm makes your DPS look good on Furnace, but it's pure padding. There's zero reason to spec into Bladestorm on Furnace until the fight is so comfortably easy that you can do dumb things and still get safe kills. Blast Furnace is a single target priority fight, not an aoe one. So it's not neccessarily an example of bad play. Low DPS on Oregorger, Hanz & Franz, all movement fights, even only doing 38K on Gruul with that ilvl, all signs that the guy has some improvement ahead of him, but not padding on Blast Furnace? Not so much.

[Mazzoroth]

I've checked the damage sources for your warrior on heroic attempts. Was a bit confused by the fact that his wild strike is like 40% of all damage he did. Pretty much I am sure that your warr was using Furious Strikes talent instead of SD.
On patchwerk-style fights I usually get Execute/Auto Attack/Raging Blow as top 3 damage done sources.

[Alphabrain]

Raging Blow is okay to use in Execute phase if you are starving on rage, I wouldn't put it in the "never use at 20%" category, it's just something you should resort to after BT, no wildsurge procs, at low rage. Better to do a RB than an empty GCD.



I second all of this (especially stormbolt and siegebreaker being fine talent choices on a fight like Blackhand), but the Blast Furnace part is... sketchy, at best. Yeah, Bladestorm makes your DPS look good on Furnace, but it's pure padding. There's zero reason to spec into Bladestorm on Furnace until the fight is so comfortably easy that you can do dumb things and still get safe kills. Blast Furnace is a single target priority fight, not an aoe one. So it's not neccessarily an example of bad play. Low DPS on Oregorger, Hanz & Franz, all movement fights, even only doing 38K on Gruul with that ilvl, all signs that the guy has some improvement ahead of him, but not padding on Blast Furnace? Not so much.

Couldn't have said it any better.

[Crazypills]

Regarding Sudden Death: On Fights like Blackhand it is much easier to lose Damage because of SD since you can easily miss the opportunity to use your proc because of the massive movement all the time. Wild Strikes makes you much more flexible here, even if you get rage capped at some point. This argument does not apply to bosses like gruul ofc.

This actually isn't true. Sudden Death increases your proc chance continuously while you're off the boss, so it's likely to proc soon after re-engaging after having been off. Wild Strikes you lose more damage because you're just...not on the boss at all, making it completely worthless. Wild Strikes don't really have a place in our talents at the moment.

Raging Blow is okay to use in Execute phase if you are starving on rage, I wouldn't put it in the "never use at 20%" category, it's just something you should resort to after BT, no wildsurge procs, at low rage. Better to do a RB than an empty GCD.

Raging Blow actually has a better damage per rage spent ratio, so using Raging Blow is fine during execute phase. Unless he's rage capped, he should use either Execute or RB depending on his rage.

- - - Updated - - -

What is he not doing (enough)? What should he change up?

Beastlord: He should be using either Anger Management with Blade Storm or Ravager Bladestorm. If he goes the latter and the adds are settled early enough, he can alternate each on the add packs (bladestorm first group, ravager second, etc). He needs to lay off the wild strikes.

Operator: Your group's aoe damage is fantastic, so you may want him to hold his aoe for the firemender and Man at arms, since his damage on them is low. AoE on the little packs looks nice on paper, but that damage is more important on the man at arms and firemender. He's also no whirlwinding at all on that fight, which means he isn't meat cleaving. There are almost always adds up, and if there are adds up that aren't dead, he needs to help down them with ww+rb.

Iron Maidens: Ok seriously, this is kinda painful. He should be arms on this fight, but if he wants to stay fury, he NEEDS to learn how to meat cleave.

Hans and Frans: Why is he using wild strike during the execute phase? If he's rage starved and got a blood surge proc, that's the only time he should be using wild strike during execute.

Flamebender: Looks like he went single target. This is a cleave fight unless you're on Mythic, so Arms is what he should be playing. If he's trying to make fury work, he needs aoe for the dogs, going single target isn't great. Bladestorm and Ravager.

Kromog: He needs to have Bladestorm and Ravager for the hands phase, he shouldn't be single target on multi target fights.

Gruul: Alright, I get it. 99% sure he's using Wild Strikes. He needs to be using Sudden Death, that's one talent that shouldn't change per fight, that talent should be up 100%.

I think with some AOE talent changes and using Sudden Death insead of Wild Strikes, his dps will go up considerably. Good luck!

[Afo]

So much bad advice in this thread, really, half of it is just plain wrong and would end up hurting his dps.

Tell your friend to rather come to the sticky Fury thread and read the first page in detail. Then go read the last 5ish pages of discussion to get up-to-date with the latest and greatest that haven't been added to the front yet.

[Deleted]

So much bad advice in this thread, really, half of it is just plain wrong and would end up hurting his dps.

Tell your friend to rather come to the sticky Fury thread and read the first page in detail. Then go read the last 5ish pages of discussion to get up-to-date with the latest and greatest that haven't been added to the front yet.

Pretty much.

I lol'd when I read this;

Under 20% he should only use Bloodsurge procs and full on execute. On gruul for example I see him using Raging Blow still(sub 20%)