Guild is looking to start Mythic

[Astynax]

If they are on a decent pop server, they could easily pug a dps or maybe a healer for the first few mythic bosses. There are bound to be some average skilled players with no active raiding guild or there could be some decently geared alts from more progressed guilds willing to tag along.

With my alts on Sunday nights I occasionally pug the first few mythic bosses with some lower progressed guilds on my server if nothing it going on that night.

This will extremely hinder progression when there's people who are missing on previous runs with zero experience and also having to teach PUG people every week. Bringing in the same people each time you attempt lets you learn extremely faster than reteach everytime. It'll be awful for those who are always there but having to wait on one or a few to learn it each raid is going to result in burnout and no shows fast

PUGing the easy initial bosses isnt the same as progressing mythic. People wont want to keep going if its just the same 2 every single week due to MIAs

Being benched if your spec is just plain bad for a fight is something smart players will just accept to increase the guilds chances to down a boss. You shouldn't recruit people for the bench- you have a bigger roster than needed to easily swap out underperforming people- doesn't matter how much you like them or not.

If you're having a hard time with something the best solution is often just to get rid of it faster. If tgat means killing a mob sooner than you'd like, dispelling differently, using heroism differently and so on.
*edit*

Oh and one more thing.
Just because a class / spec is in theory the best to deal with a mechanic doesn't mean the dumbfuck is able to do it.

Basically this. We have a roster of 27 and absolutely know that people will be benched. As a ret I chose to sit out in 2 of the fights while they were learning the boss bc ret is weak at them. Once the boss is down and on farm then I can go in to get my kill which lets us move on faster. Better to kill it in 1-2 nights then go in next week with 80% of the raid knowing exactly what to do than try to force a kill with reduced chances. Forcing the comp to cause struggles means wiping earlier so everyone gets to see less phases which prolongs downing that progression kill. Once people have done it once they should be able to do it again, even with a few new people in

I have to say that this statement is wrong. Both things are important for mythic difficulty. If you want to raid mythic, yes you need to deal with the mechanics. This includes the mythic mechanics along with the other mechanics that you more or less ignored on normal/heroic. If you do not learn to deal with this you will wipe.
Not every boss on mythic requires perfect execution, our first Flamebinder kill was quite bad if I recall. But the harder the bosses are the more punishing mistakes are.

But you cannot ignore dps/hps. A guy who does every mechanic perfect and is not able to break 20k dps is, despite his mechanical awareness, a dead wheel. Almost every fight on mythic have a certain requirement of dips/healing, even if it not the enrage timer.
- On beastlord p4 is a dps race.
- Gruul have a quite tight enrage timer
- Oreborger id more forgiving in terms of enrage but still you need to meet it.
- Hans and Franz is the only boss where I think perfect execution makes dps/hps irrelvant
- Flamebender have her dogs that you need to kill fast and at the same time
- Kromog have his pillars of stone
- Thogar have his adds
- Maidens have p2 (or the sub 20%)
- Furnace have its primal elementalists
And so on.. This was just small examples.

If you want to progress on mythic. Make sure you have players that knows how to do mechanics while ALSO pushing their dps/hps to the limit.

Absolutely cannot ignore meters. Mythic is not a time to be learning your class. This means you have to make sure that every single person on your list is using optimal enchants, gems, spec and 100% know their rotation during each stage without even having done it before.

Not realistic to have a few consistently fail then be oh well, they'll learn next week hopefully. They have to know when to use their CDs and spells at which time, not just. If you (or any of the 20 raiders) tolerate ignorance and lack of prep, mythic isnt for you. You have to be active in logs and call people out on mistakes. Make each personally responsible as a single person can cause a wipe.

[Tennis]

If you're 9/10H right now I don't see how you can expect to jump to fully clear mythic next tier. You would have to replace a lot of your roster.

[Notdev]

Here's a question I want to pose to those further progressed Mythic guilds out there.

I'm a raid leader and my guild is currently 4/7 M HM, 10/10 H BRF (we are just wrapping up 6/7 M HM before we head into M BRF for progression's sake and to give our Mythic team some grounding). We only raid two nights a week progression-wise, then have an optional farm night on Sunday for Heroic BRF.

We currently are running with ~23-24 players on our Mythic team, but ideally want to be at 25 (it was 25 until a couple weeks ago when I had a few people drop out). We are recruiting right now to try and bring that number back up.

Currently, how we do rotating raid members is we have 5 spots designated in the raid team that are "rotational" spots. This means that these 5 spots house our 10 rotational players, and we give each of the rotational raiders one night of progression (either Tues or Thurs) each week. Typically, I send them a schedule of who is raiding what day ahead of time, so they know if they need to be there or not. Then, if someone calls off, I can call on the rotational players who aren't raiding that night and have them fill in, or at least that's what the systems original intention was to be.

What's been occurring lately is the following. I will tell the five rotational players that they will need to be there on either Tues or Thurs. Then, someone calls off, whether it be one of our 15 starting players or one of the rotational players. Then, when I go to contact the rotational players that hadn't been scheduled that night, they can't raid because they'd already made other plans or whatnot for that evening and are unable to raid. So, in reality I have no backups. This is an issue I've been trying to solve lately, but can't seem to think of a proper solution that doesn't involve me being an asshole, like making everyone show up whether they were raiding or not, etc. I know its my job as a raid leader to be that asshole sometimes, but I'd just like to see if there are really no other options before moving to that type of plan.

So finally, my question is how to other further progressed raiding guilds manage their backup players? Do you make them get on, then just sit online and wait for raid to be over? Or do you do something else?

I don't like the "rotation" idea. We have a roster of 25. What we do during progress is rotate people in in about 45 minute shifts on the first night of progress, or until we feel like a kill is within our reach. Then we take what we feel is the best comp for the encounter, taking into account both spec strengths and our player's strengths. If people are messing up too much after we make our "best comp" decision we sit them for someone who is on the sidelines.

Obviously some people will sit more than others, because every guild has a "lower end" few raiders. If they understand they are on the lower end there shouldn't be any issues, but if they don't it could lead to some drama. We did recently lose a rogue who almost always sat on progress because frankly he was one of our worst players (he wasn't horrible, just clearly a cut below the rest of our raiders) so he got upset and gquit when we sat him on Operator progress.

We also just usually have our Resto Druid/Resto Shaman/MW Monk /roll to see who sits on 4 heal fights since they are all similarly skilled and Disc/Holy Paladin is pretty important on every fight.

[Astynax]

Yeah not sold on the set rotation to give people shifts either. IMO yes get a larger roster but on progression nights bring in the most optimal comp to get the boss killed. Once it's been downed once the majority of the group will know what to do so it's easier for the less optimal comps to work as well. Once the kill has been practiced and put onto farm, the people brought in are the classes who need drops from them the most to optimize gearing. Optimized classes with optimized gear = high chance to kill next target