So, is group loot going to be "garbage" and personal loot "optimal"?

[Bapestar]

At the start of WOD my guild was using PL at first. After we realized how garbage it was we switched to ML, things were much better. Maybe these changes will make PL better than ML, I doubt it though.

[Baelic]

Yes, we know that, but that really doesn't explain how Personal Loot works. It only tells us that it will drop more items in the future, and when it does, it will be dropping more than Group Loot.

We don't know how a whole bunch of loot-related mechanisms work. Although Blizzard is willing to share combat math with theorycrafters, no one has ever seen an official public explanation of, for example, how "bad luck protection" works.

And of course we don't know actual drop rates of anything, ever, from Blizzard. (Except when they are 100%.)


That's not "how it works." That's a big picture executive summary which wouldn't even begin to describe the mechanism to someone who actually had to implement it.

Does it really need to be that in-depth? The critical information is already there for you, and if I recall from the past Blizz has actually stated that "bad RNG protection" is actually just upping the drop-rate after each failed roll until you get something.

I really don't see the point of going more in-depth than that.

[Tharkkun]

Sure it is a nerf. It is literally the same chance than before just capped by raidsize / n, where n is a number we dont know. The cap is new. While you always had a small chance before the chance, you wont have a chance anymore with patch 6.2 once the cap number of players receiving loot was reached.



Yes. And i know Afrasiabis hair dresser. Still i dont know why the devs really removed flying.

How do you know it's a cap and not a minimum guaranteed loot? There was no mention of cap, only that more people would earn loot. Right now you might see 3 pieces of loot in LFR. That's far below the cap.

[Deleted]

Nope, actual loot rolling with ML takes even less time than greed/need. Even when everybody needs everything, raid team just goes ahead and cleans trash while ML decides where the loot goes.
PL could be great when new tier entered for first time if it won't give items to tanks and healers instead dps, which should always be geared in first place, unless an encounter requires some unusual healing activity or additional tank survival, and even in that rare occations it is way better for one dps to run his healer or tank offspec instead of funneling gear into tanks and healers first.

Are you serious on this? Maybe it's true for top 1% progression, but otherwise I totally disagree. Imho, on most encounters surviving of all raid members is the main problem, I hardly run into any enrage. If only dps would learn to avoid mechanics rather than first finishing that damn cast...

[Cthulhu 2020]

So for all those who don't follow blue posts, the new PL is going to guarantee a base number of drops for that particular raid equivalent to what ML would normally give, PLUS bonus chances at even more considering that you can't hand pick and choose who the loot goes to.

So instead of a loot ceiling (as some were tin foil hatting there would be) there's actually a loot basement.

[Deleted]

I sure hope so

Me too... in fact I hope person loot would be an option for each player regardless of raid settings. If you toggle it, youre excluded from the group loot pool and just get your personal rolls.

It would be awesome for PuGs to prevent ninjas and I wouldnt mind it in guild runs either TBH. Its always the officers and their friends who get their grubby mitts on the good stuff first or so it seems

[Jessicka]

Personal loot will be better earlier in the tier, when everyone needs stuff, and for groups with inconsistent attendances; so pugs and casual raiding groups, alt runs and the like. After a few weeks when people in more consistent raiding teams have filled a few slots with new gear, then Master Looter will again be preferable to minimise the impact of duplicate loot going to those who already have an item in that slot.

I fail to see how that's complicated for anyone to figure out.

[Deleted]

How do you know it's a cap and not a minimum guaranteed loot? There was no mention of cap, only that more people would earn loot. Right now you might see 3 pieces of loot in LFR. That's far below the cap.

Probably because Blizzard doesnt want us to gear to fast either. If there was only a minimum cap to PL it would be significantly beter as ML. This would lead to much faster gearing of groups because everyone will use it at start of the patch. Guilds too if they have a change at more drops and in the beginning you cam pretty much use every item you get, so double drops isnt an issue yet

Faster gearing means less subs after a few weeks because once people clear content a certain portion of the playerbase will take a break until new content

[Deleted]

Personal loot will be better earlier in the tier, when everyone needs stuff, and for groups with inconsistent attendances; so pugs and casual raiding groups, alt runs and the like. After a few weeks when people in more consistent raiding teams have filled a few slots with new gear, then Master Looter will again be preferable to minimise the impact of duplicate loot going to those who already have an item in that slot.

I fail to see how that's complicated for anyone to figure out.

I absolutely agree. That's what I concluded for my raid already in Post #100, but as always in such long threads stuff keeps repeating ;o)

[Mormolyce]

Will tedious people constantly insist that one thing is "garbage" and the other is "optimal"?

Yes, always.

Ignore those people.

[Deleted]

So instead of a loot ceiling (as some were tin foil hatting there would be) there's actually a loot basement.

There is a difference between tin foil hats and concerns.

Concerns are good. They help to find errors in ideas.

[kaktus]

Great change. Let's hope that this will get most pugs into using PL!

[l33t]

Are you serious on this? Maybe it's true for top 1% progression, but otherwise I totally disagree. Imho, on most encounters surviving of all raid members is the main problem, I hardly run into any enrage. If only dps would learn to avoid mechanics rather than first finishing that damn cast...

I'm sorry to hear that, but the truth is no matter how many gear you feed to your healers (or tanks), if your raid is not avoiding most of the avoidable damage, you'll wipe anyway.

And we feed gear to damage dealers not because of the enrage timers, but plainly to deal with encounter faster. I.e. if you have adds that spawn and deal raidwide or tank damage or both, more damage dealt by raid will end them faster leading to less overall raid/tank damage received; while more raid healing or more raid survival leads only to less damage dealt by raid, thus more damage dealt to raid. It is a universal rule, the faster you kill stuff in raids the less encounter damage your raid gets overall. Try it, seriously.

[Deleted]

Hi I33t,

well, we are not cutting edge. Raiding only once per week for 3 hours. But we are not bad, we have 8/10 HC down, same as the AskMrRobot-Raidteam which is doing 2 raids per week

Since most of our wipes occur if a tank dies and deaths of dps normally can be compensated by us more easily, I'll guess I'll continue to at least gear up equally. But you gave me something to think about and I'll try and see in next tier whether it's applicable to us.

[Ballrug]

It is a universal rule, the faster you kill stuff in raids the less encounter damage your raid gets overall. Try it, seriously.

Yes but in general, killing stuff faster doesn't result in the group taking less damage per second, unless soft enrage mechanics/stacking debuffs are in play. Normally what limits healing and tanking is healing/mitigation throughput, not some total value over an arbitrary period of time.

[judgementofantonidas]

At the start of WOD my guild was using PL at first. After we realized how garbage it was we switched to ML, things were much better. Maybe these changes will make PL better than ML, I doubt it though.

Personal loot will never be such that the one person needing more items gets more items. That same person will still get gold and a gold coin roll while the guy who needed nothing gets the personal drop. Guaranteed.