Did anyone actually hate Valor/Justice/Badges

[Ater]

Yes, now that there aren't any valor at all to cap, I'm sure things have massively improved.

*Gets tired being served beans every day.
*Petitions to not be fed at all.

Well to me it's an improvement to not feel forced to do outdated content. That said, there is still a lot of things they could do to improve the game even more.

[Deleted]

I liked the concept.

[Deleted]

Nope was a great system that got changed/removed for no good reason.

[Wries]

The system in Cataclysm with 7 bonus rewards per week was by far the best system for Valor/Badges. If that were to make a comeback I imagine most people would be happy.

Yes. Weird to me that it got removed.

Then came along Heroism, valor and frost, the biggest pain in the ass system theyve ever made. You just couldnt get rid of them. System was convoluted and horrible.

Disagree. Tiered badges were awesome. The original idea was that low tier heroism-badges would always drop from dungeons and the 10-man first tier of raids which would have meant you had a system where you couldn't "grind" easy content to make your way into high ilvl-rewards. It would also make dungeons less mandatory on high geared players, but with the exception of getting a high tier badge bonus for going a dungeon once a day.

Shame they didn't stick with it and started messing things up during Patch 3.2, essentially killing Naxx/Ulduar (with ToC to follow) and making dungeon grinding a tad TOO relevant. End-game for many became the dungeons as they posed less and less of a challenge but kept rewarding better and better gear.

Now we're so used to that Blizzard has designed so that only ONE raid tier is relevant and that some perceive it as "fun" to progress through the same raid in four difficulties in order to gear up your character, rather than journeying through different environments as your character became stronger. Oh well. Gone are those days.

[Ballrug]

There's no reason to be so hostile.

I'm plenty capable of "playing the game in a way that makes me happy" and if that involves not running dungeons, then I won't. That doesn't mean I can't criticise what I feel to be a weakness in the system design. That's how discussion works.

The weakness in the design is that a feature that gives a huge number of people something to do in game that results in meaningful character and gear progression, as well as social interaction, is just "running obsolete content X amount of times a week" to you?

All righty then. Obviously that's Blizzard's problem, not yours.

[Armourboy]

Would it have been better if they removed the 3-crafted pieces limitation? Because then crafting would literally replace any purpose VP used to have.

Here is the problem with just removing it and making the entire catch up be through crafting, it doesn't really add anything to do in a game that sorely needs something, anything to do outside of raiding. Secondary to that it doesn't really give you that sense of progression that a system like valor did. Yeah sure the number changes, but that's really about it. That was the beauty of valor gear, not only did you progress bit by bit, but the gear changed based around what raid was out at the time.

People also tend to lose sight in the fact that yes they were propping up dungeons so to speak, but they were also giving everyone from the most hardcore to the most casual something they could do. I understand it may not have been the most enjoyable thing in the world for everyone, but neither were dailies, and neither is raiding. It is the reason with MoP they tried a system where basically everything gave you valor, and if it didn't it gave you justice points. You had the option to do it the way you wanted to do it, within reason.

Whether it was the best system in the world or not it did give players something to do, and it gave them a sense of progression. Frankly I think that is why people have started looking back more fondly at Cata in recent months and it is also why I can't knock MoP any at all. Maybe not the best delivery, but definitely more to do outside of raiding than WoD has even thought about.

[Tradu]

I didn't mind them. They gave a catchup mechanic and something to counteract some of the RNG from boss drops. The only issue I ever had with them(and Justice/Valor) was the whole daily/weekly cap stuff, the badges and what you could buy with them were fine.
Hell, I liked running random dungeons when there were actual rewards for doing so. I spammed a bunch of heroics during 5.4 to buy a ton of heirlooms, and I had fun running "obsolete content" that I was effectively soloing.

[Klingers]

Valor gear empowered people to counter RNG and self-pace their gear acquisition. The only people that hated valor was Blizzard because it hurt retention during content droughts.

[Ballrug]

Valor gear empowered people to counter RNG and self-pace their gear acquisition. The only people that hated valor was Blizzard because it hurt retention during content droughts.

How'd it do that? Because it kept people in organized raids longer?

News flash: The great majority of the playing population just doesn't do organized raiding.

It's like raiders pay $150/month for the game so if it takes them longer to finish that 4-set then that's the key to making everything OK.

[Deleted]

Valour Points were not really removed, they were renamed Apexis Crystals.

[Klingers]

How'd it do that? Because it kept people in organized raids longer?

News flash: The great majority of the playing population just doesn't do organized raiding.

It's like raiders pay $150/month for the game so if it takes them longer to finish that 4-set then that's the key to making everything OK.

I don't think you actually got the point of my post at all. I was saying the opposite to what you thought I said. I want casual players and raiders to be able to gear out their slots and stop playing for 3 months if that's what they want. Valor enabled that.

[Ballrug]

I don't think you actually got the point of my post at all. I was saying the opposite to what you thought I said. I want casual players and raiders to be able to gear out their slots and stop playing for 3 months if that's what they want. Valor enabled that.

No, you said it "hurt retention during content droughts" and I am thinking, if the 80-95% of players who don't do organized raiding have a choice between (1) doing things for valor to earn gear, and (2) having nothing to do for valor to earn gear, then Blizzard would obviously choose (2) players having nothing at all to do because then they would stay subscribed because ...

So you see why I have trouble with your point.

[Pull My Finger]

Valor was cool, it made sense and removing the system was a dumb idea. You can't help morons who get stressed out about having to "cap" things in a video game any way. And you shouldn't. A game dev's job is to come up with stuff to entertain people (preferably not through strokes of genius like "I got an idea! Let's, uh, remove stuff from the game!"), not treating mental issues.

[Deleted]

I didn't particularly enjoy them, partially because there was no catch-up mechanism if you missed a week. This was really bad during TotC since you had to buy your tier sets with badges.

[jimlow]

I loved the justice/valor system in wrath/cata. You were guaranteed tier sets and it was fun watching your characters power level spike dramatically every new piece of tier gear you got. Finally getting your ilvel high enough to step into the ToC and ICC dungeons where you could replace a good amount of your gear. I know most people would disagree with me at the time but I loved the rofl stomp dungeons of wrath. I have very fond memories of playing a Prot/Ret hybrid and just being godly in those instances.

Gear was so plentiful on people they set weekly raid boss kills for valor. Remember when they had those? They never implemented that system again outside of wrath and I always wondered why.

Also justice/valor served a dual purpose for pvp as well because you could use those points to buy full pvp gear as well. There was such good synergy with the badges. I don't know why they took that whole system and didn't run with it more

[Kyocere]

Didn't crafting replace that niche in WoD?

In my mind Blizzard made a lot of good changes with WoD, such as making gold and crafting more meaningful, but people just don't seem to 'get' these changes.

Except you can only wear 3 pieces, which are random stats if you make them. Then you get to waste tons of mats trying to roll the correct stats. (Hooray for removing reforging!) I hardly call that a good change.
I loved getting bonus armor when I made an Agility neck on my Hunter. It only took about 14 rolls to get rid of it.

[ComputerNerd]

"Oh, this guy some some thing almost as good as my thing which I got several months ago; and now I feel undistinguished even though everything else I have is still better than theirs."

This sums up a considerable number of arguments.
Quite worrying how many feel the need to be "better" than someone else.
The community has been going downhill for years largely due to that attitude.

Except you can only wear 3 pieces, which are random stats if you make them. Then you get to waste tons of mats trying to roll the correct stats. (Hooray for removing reforging!) I hardly call that a good change.
I loved getting bonus armor when I made an Agility neck on my Hunter. It only took about 14 rolls to get rid of it.

The random part of the crafting is frustrating yes, but reforging was making more problems than it solved.
Reforging was a band-aid for a bigger stat imbalance issue which blizzard are making steps towards improving now.

[Deleted]

I especially liked the fact that they felt physical opposed to points or the number inflated crystals.

Oh, and you could get them from daily quests... if they added them to rare-spawn loot tables it would be a great singular reward system that covered all types of PVE play styles and thus made them rewarding.

[Glorious Leader]

Valor gear empowered people to counter RNG and self-pace their gear acquisition. The only people that hated valor was Blizzard because it hurt retention during content droughts.

I actually think it helped sub retention. It made alts more of a thing.

[IIamaKing]

Someone who logs into a game when he wants to log in, as opposed to when the game tells him to log in, is exercising self-control.

Or maybe I'm just a fucking idiot?

His complaint was he did not want to feel forced. Thats on him, not the game.