"Blizzard designs as a collective."

[Dadwen]

I find it hard to believe a Collective could have made such a major direction change from what I consider Ok design from MOP to crap design in WOD.

[Chain Chungus]

This!!!

I just saw an interview with GRR Martin, and he was asked if fans opinions of his older books will influence how GoT ends.. and his reply was ´art is not a democracy´..

No kidding! I'm glad to hear him say that.

[Deleted]

To the people that think a company is run by the three guys responding on twitter, really need to read some Dilbert.
Or watch some behind-the-scenes footage of projects such as Lord of the Rings trilogy or the making of Skyrim.
Failure will be 99% management. Ever worked.. anywhere? Seriously. Others have pointed that out as well.

[Deleted]

Of course they design as a collective. It's just that, as a collective, they're shit.

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To the people that think a company is run by the three guys responding on twitter, really need to read some Dilbert.
Or watch some behind-the-scenes footage of projects such as Lord of the Rings trilogy or the making of Skyrim.
Failure will be 99% management. Ever worked.. anywhere? Seriously. Others have pointed that out as well.

Not entirely wrong what you said there, but lots of the mistakes in WoD are not because of management, simply retarded decisions.

[Deleted]

I blame 'devs' not any one of them, but the group for being lazy, complacent and arrogant. Just like I blame 'government bureaucracy' for why things never get done, instead of Obama.

#thanksHolinka

[thebelltolleth]

Yes, they collectively made a shit game this expansion.

But it will be interesting how many individuals, and who, are made to pay for it. I suspect there will be some good people lost due to scapegoating.

[darklogrus]

Considering almost all available resources were put to work on 1 aspect of the game makes me question if it was really a collective design decision.

[MoanaLisa]

But it will be interesting how many individuals, and who, are made to pay for it. I suspect there will be some good people lost due to scapegoating.

I very much doubt if people will be fired over this. Most of the top guys there have been there for years and won't be going anywhere. It's just a guess but I expect to see someone else in Alex Afrasiabi's job title for the next expansion but he'll be shifted to another team assuming anything happens at all. Blizzard, as near as I can tell, doesn't make heads roll over collective judgement problems.

They could use some fresh people nearer the top and perhaps there will be in the expansion that's being done now by Team 2. They picked up some good people from the EQN layoffs.

[dextersmith]

Not so but Blizzard is mostly shit. Does the copier guy get a vote? No. Remember how many times Ghostcrawler talked about his stupid vision as if people gave a shit?

[Hyve]

A Lead Developer sets the tone, and likely has the final say, but that doesn't detract from the fact they'll develop the game as a team. They know it'd be impossible for a single person to be in total control of a large aspect of the game. A particular developer might come up with the theme, or design of an expansion for example, but that wouldn't mean they're in total control of everything that takes place.

[shoc]

Definitely agree that WoW suffers from 'too many cooks spoil the broth' but I don't think it is possible for WoW to be developed any other way.

It would be impossible for 1 vision to lead every aspect of the game. The PvP can't conflict with the PvE and vice versa. Level design can't clash with the NPC and armor design. Boss tuning can't clash with PvP balance, etc etc etc.

[Deleted]

As for TV series and so on... there is never "one" person doing every single episodes' script / direction - there are a few who have their own domains while still needing to be in resonance with the others.

[Shampro]

The armchair developers are out in force today. It's very interesting to read how many think they know anything about project management as big as this game, gives a good chuckle.

[Deleted]

The armchair developers are out in force today. It's very interesting to read how many think they know anything about project management as big as this game, gives a good chuckle.

First, you'll have to be a little more creative than 'armchair', because the designers aren't exactly out jogging whilst they're doing their work. Although it'd make a lot more sense of the team responsible for class balancing were busy rock-climbing whilst struggling to figure out a viable solution to the Demonology problem.

Second, we (royal we) don't know anything about project management - we know what a good MMORPG is, and we know that good MMORPG iterations have been made in the past, so thereby it's possible to make one.

Nobody is lambasting them for their methods of project development with any serious clue as to how things work, however curious we all may be as to how expansions like this came around. If you're a big fan of the game, then you know what makes you tick, you know what makes the game fun.

Jeff Kaplan once said back in 2006, that those guys working on the project were the biggest fans of their own game. And that is what made it work. Passion, attachment, cohesive design philosophy, effort & quality. It is clear from an objective, evidential standpoint that this is no longer the case.

Think about this; Watcher is a self-proclaimed raider. He designs raids. He's passionate about raids. Raids are made, they're of generally great value in terms of PvE content.

Then take Brian Holinka. Then take Alex Afrasiabi. etc, etc. ad nauseum.

[Hitei]

First, you'll have to be a little more creative than 'armchair', because the designers aren't exactly out jogging whilst they're doing their work. Although it'd make a lot more sense of the team responsible for class balancing were busy rock-climbing whilst struggling to figure out a viable solution to the Demonology problem.

Second, we (royal we) don't know anything about project management - we know what a good MMORPG is, and we know that good MMORPG iterations have been made in the past, so thereby it's possible to make one.

Nobody is lambasting them for their methods of project development with any serious clue as to how things work, however curious we all may be as to how expansions like this came around. If you're a big fan of the game, then you know what makes you tick, you know what makes the game fun.

Jeff Kaplan once said back in 2006, that those guys working on the project were the biggest fans of their own game. And that is what made it work. Passion, attachment, cohesive design philosophy, effort & quality. It is clear from an objective, evidential standpoint that this is no longer the case.

Think about this; Watcher is a self-proclaimed raider. He designs raids. He's passionate about raids. Raids are made, they're of generally great value in terms of PvE content.

Then take Brian Holinka. Then take Alex Afrasiabi. etc, etc. ad nauseum.

Please don't use the word "objective" incorrectly.

[Deleted]

Please don't use the word "objective" incorrectly.

Please read the last, I don't know, ~300 posts in my history & take note of the objective reasoning behind my arguments.

Read through some kaplan interviews from Vanilla & BC, and compare them to more recent ones with Watcher & co. Perhaps you'll get a better idea of what passion means.

[Lumineus]

The exception to the EQ boys club mentality was Tigole

Ehhhhh? Tigole was in Fires of Heaven, he's Furor's best friend, and opinion-wise may as well have been Furor's clone. That's why when he was raid designer, hybrids healed and Warriors were gods.

[Xar226]

Please read the last, I don't know, ~300 posts in my history & take note of the objective reasoning behind my arguments.

Read through some kaplan interviews from Vanilla & BC, and compare them to more recent ones with Watcher & co. Perhaps you'll get a better idea of what passion means.

Unless you have developed a method to accurately measure passion from interview text, in which case I know a lot of computer science researchers that want make you very rich, you're still missing his point. "They were more passionate in the past" is a subjective evaluation. "Subjective" doesn't mean "without any evidence," and "objective" doesn't mean "with evidence."

[Deleted]

Unless you have developed a method to accurately measure passion from interview text, in which case I know a lot of computer science researchers that want make you very rich, you're still missing his point. "They were more passionate in the past" is a subjective evaluation. "Subjective" doesn't mean "without any evidence," and "objective" doesn't mean "with evidence."

Comical, but seriously, you should read the interviews & tell me what you interpret from them in relation to eachother.

Because obviously, analysing anything anyone has ever said is completely pointless and nonsensical, and doesn't help support any form of argument.

Ehhhhh? Tigole was in Fires of Heaven, he's Furor's best friend, and opinion-wise may as well have been Furor's clone. That's why when he was raid designer, hybrids healed and Warriors were gods.

Q: What are you guys doing to counteract people from dropping their WoW accounts?

A: I think it's a multi-tiered approach. The problem is that everyone has a different play style and WoW is such a big game and so diverse, that there's not that one thing that people want. I think the revamp of PvP will be huge. I think a lot of people bowed out because of the PvP system. I think we will show people that we care about the PvP system and we want to make it how you want it to be. I think because we are doing this in such a big way it will be huge. I also think that the fact we are changing the raid cap and dungeon difficulty, will also add to gamers wanting to stay or come back.

And then there's the guys who just like to solo. They don't like to group or PvP or quest and for them it's all about raising their level cap. They just love showing off their character and gaining abilities. For those people the expansion itself is the big win because it's level 70 with massive Outlands zones and quests.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/11/e...s-jeff-kaplan/

Then go back and read Hazzikostas' interviews & tell me what you think.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

To the people that think a company is run by the three guys responding on twitter, really need to read some Dilbert.

Twitter?

http://lorddictator.blogspot.com/200...1_archive.html

"This isn't helpful. If you feel like your feedback isn't contributing anything, we would suggest that you just stop posting rather than posting about how you feel ignored. Smart players realize that we take community feedback into consideration when we make decisions."

So when players do, it's...

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...s-401/#post128

And I am going to ban you.

Plenty of players have found ways to express their concerns without resorting to garbage posts. If the difference eludes you, then we'd all be better served if you read more and posted less.

I am grateful -- extremely grateful -- for any intelligent post, even if it disagrees with our design direction. Please don't waste my time with unintelligent ones.

I am not going to mention moderation again in this thread. I suggest you do not either.

But, but, but...

http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/02/m...-thats-awesome

To underline even more: most of our ideas will be TERRIBLE. You don't want them in the game! Some will survive.

Isn't Twitter chit chat that caused the community rifts and drifts. It's the schizophrenic design/lead by committees. ^-^

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But it will be interesting how many individuals, and who, are made to pay for it. I suspect there will be some good people lost due to scapegoating.

A certain warlock dev is one. Used up all his political clout to run the warlock changes past the gatekeeper(s), and knew that ended his career at Blizzard.

He got the players praise, but at the expense of his own job.

99.9% won't do that, though. And if they want to have references in this interconnect job market, understand why polishing apples is an important office skill.

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They could use some fresh people nearer the top and perhaps there will be in the expansion that's being done now by Team 2. They picked up some good people from the EQN layoffs.

They really need some restructuring of leadership that understands how this market is going now -- as funneling everyone to do only raids (or apexis grinds) satisfies no one.

The market can fit 4 areas:

1. Raids.
2. PvP.
3. Dungeoneers/World content.
4. Mini/multi-gamers.

All four can have equal gear doing things they prefer. Interested players play the game as it matches their interests.

It's nonsensical to keep best gear in only 1 mode of game play these days, as we're not playing just dungeons>raids anymore. And without it, because WoW is gear centric, it's not worth playing if you don't get that gear. It's self-defeating to even play like that.

If a PvPer has to raid to get his gear, he's going to cuss a storm, look for another game, and unsub. It doesn't match his interests. Same with the PvEr.

Match interests, funnel players towards those interests, not the opposite to create more frustration.