Simming Unholy and Frost

[Deleted]

Hey there.

I've simmed Unholy versus frost as well.

What I get isn't like Skullflower's sims at all:

Single target:
Unholy: 60877 DPS on 450s patchwerks using Def+PL
Frost: 70562 DPS on 450s patchwerks using Def+PL

HecticAddCleave:
Unholy: 90162, 53269 on prio-target. UB+NP
Frost: 104395, 65458 on prio-target. Def+PL

This is with their 6.2 2nd July profiles. Either the APLs are garbage or Unholy scales insane with gear compared to Frost. Please chime in.
Frost Armory:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...zabel/advanced
Unholy:
mythic warforged socketed Ka'graz's Burning Blade and heroic Loop of Beckoned Shadows instead of their Frost counterparts

Other than that, on live, Frost seems to have the upper hand on Hellfire Assault, while Unholy might be better on Iron Reaver due to stacking a NP duration during the air-phase. Frost can still do good here. On Kormrok there have been good parses with both specs. I found Unholy to be better in my raid comp/our strat.
I'm not sure what spec to play on Council at this point.

[Valkaneer]

Did you do a straight import of your character? Were you using AMR? Were you using the exact same gear as Skullflower's sim? Are all the Talents, food buffs, debuffs etc etc etc.

[Deleted]

Did you do a straight import of your character? Were you using AMR? Were you using the exact same gear as Skullflower's sim? Are all the Talents, food buffs, debuffs etc etc etc.

my character was imported, correct. Not using AMR. Talents, check, food, buffs and debuffs, check.

EDIT: Of course, I'm not expecting like 100% the same numbers, but I wouldn't expect more than a 3-4k difference, considering they're 1k apart at BiS gear.

[Deleted]

Is there any new sims on the RH? How many target do you need for it to be better than EDH now after the major nerf?

[Schizoide]

From Magdalena's twitter, RH is substantially outperforming what the sims predict in the actual game, so something is clearly wrong with how it's implemented in the sim. It remains very strong for unholy necroblight (and still terrible for blood and DW frost).

Unfortunately, as the sim isn't accurate, we can't answer your question as to target count. It's certainly more than 1, though.

[Deleted]

perhaps a different question is in order, how high must the necrotic plague damage be, relative to your total damage, for it to be worth it to use RH .

[Schizoide]

He said it was "very strong" so basically, you want it. Whether it's worth using on 2 targets or 3 or whatever, we don't know. My guess would be 2 is enough.

I hate guessing and talking in generalities, but without a sim to back it up, that's all we've got.

[Deleted]

Just some napkin math + some simple sims here.

So I decided to check how much % EDH increase our dps vs RH. (UH NP)

for RH it is super simple, with RH versus 1 empty trinket slot is basicly, 0.94*0.4 = 0.376 = 37.6% of NP Damage. (Mythic Version)

for EDH required some simming, overall it turns out that Fel burn proc does roughly same % of our damage ST or AOE, I guess it just procs more often on AOE, either way the proc is roughly 7% of total DMG for us.
Next up is to determine how much STR is worth, based on my few Simple sims, with different amount of targets, the STR contribution ranges around 6.6%+0.1% per extra target.

with that said, we can roughly assume the EDH is worth +- 14% of our DPS. which is pretty insane for just a trinket.

Anyhow, for that to be equal to 37.6% of NP DMG, the simple equation yields 0.14/0.376 = 37.23%
What this means, is that when NP damage exceeds 37.23% of your total damage, (on a character with 1 empty trinket slot), RH will be better than EDH.

However in practise this is abit harder to check, since u wont run around with an empty trinket slot, so assume you have EDH, which contribute to 14% of your total dmg. the amount of NP damage relative to your total will be naturally lower.

So When you are looking at your skada and recount, the necrotic plague damage % you are looking for is, 0.3723/1.07 = 0.348 = 34.8%. (STR should increase NP damage by same %, Note: this calc is not entirely accurate, it is a rough estimation)

Whenever your NP damage % exceeds that treshold, you will want to switch EDH for Reaper.

NOTE: The sims are ran for BIS gear, I understand it is unlikely for most ppl to obtain those, but since Ilvl scalling is relatively the same across all slots, the % damage across different Ilvl should be fairly similar, ea normal EDH should still do 14% ish of your damage around 700ilvl gear, while heroic EDH will still do 14% around 715 ilvl gear. therefore the conclusion should be valid across all ilvls.
NOTE#2, It is likely that you will have a better EDH than RH, simply due to it dropping from archimonde, that means the % NP damage will exceed even higher threshold to be worth it.
Note#3, Is EDH better than DC nowadays for AOE after the nerf? looking at the sims number, the fel cleave proc seems to have gone down quite abit.