Melee vs ranged in HFC

[Deleted]

There are several reasons there are still melees in raids, a lot of mechanics require melees or are just more convenient for melees (kick duty, soaking stuff, sharing damage in melee range)
You also have to consider loot distribution, you'll probbaly have 1 plate tank, 1 hpal, you want some more plates to get balanced item distribution
Wow is the kind of game when you'll take a good player over a class (most of the times in non extreme situations), very few guilds have the most optimised raid comp because they'd rather have players they consider good
Also it happens melees do way more damage than most ranged, which was the case this tier, Arms warriors destroyed everything on cleave

Despite all of that i don't think there is any advantage playing a melee on any fight, you're penalised by every movement, more exposed to aoes, the only benefit is you most of the time have less mechanics to handle than ranged

[Wilderness]

As usual melees are a burden to the raid. You can clean the raid without melees, you cannot do it without ranged (or it will be much much harder).

No, they aren't a burden at all. DKs, Rogues, and Warriors are all good to very good dps along with being useful throughout HFC for several mechanics. Declaring melee a burden because you couldn't full clear with an entire raid group of them is horrible logic. There are several melee specs that aren't in a great place right now, though the same can be said of at least a couple ranged as well.

[Accendor]

Melees may be very good in some fights, but overall range a better. As always, there is not much reason to bring more than 1 or 2 additional melees for additional interrupts to the raid.

[Killface1]

Ever notice you never hear guilds like method or paragon talking about how melee are useless and ranged are amazing? You only hear about it from players who are 5/13n. All of the good players and guilds and groups recognize there are melee mechanics that need melee, and there are ranged mechanics that need ranged, and you need a balance of each type.

damage wise, most melee are doing just fine, and similarly with ranged.

[munkeyinorbit]

Yes, I have heard that many times. But then why guilds stubbornly take melee in raid if a full ranged team would be superior?

Interrupts and stuns, that's it. If shit needs interrupting or stunning range are not going to do it. They just rather wipe than lose dps by using a stun or interrupt.

[Gaidax]

Interrupts and stuns, that's it. If shit needs interrupting or stunning range are not going to do it. They just rather wipe than lose dps by using a stun or interrupt.

Such trivial tasks are beneath us, let those melee slaves deal with this...

[Deleted]

Ever notice you never hear guilds like method or paragon talking about how melee are useless and ranged are amazing? You only hear about it from players who are 5/13n. All of the good players and guilds and groups recognize there are melee mechanics that need melee, and there are ranged mechanics that need ranged, and you need a balance of each type.

damage wise, most melee are doing just fine, and similarly with ranged.

Cause clearly method didn't stack hunters and mages this xpac.

[Deleted]

What is wrog with the melees?
You want interrupts and they are almost 100% on bosses till rangers runnng around and dealing with adds
Would say that only Gore is prety much melee unfriendly boss because you have to deal with mechanics just like every range in group

[Deleted]

Ever notice you never hear guilds like method or paragon talking about how melee are useless and ranged are amazing? You only hear about it from players who are 5/13n. All of the good players and guilds and groups recognize there are melee mechanics that need melee, and there are ranged mechanics that need ranged, and you need a balance of each type.

damage wise, most melee are doing just fine, and similarly with ranged.

Top guilds have highlighted melee weakness plenty and as recently as on Blackhand, unless you were a Rogue obviously, who often get to play in their own weird category off to the side of this debate thanks to their toolkit.

HFC had a better representation of melee due to how strong DKs and Warriors were earlier on, but it does pretty much take buffing them so much that it's impossible to ignore their DPS to justify a spot over a ranged player, all else being equal. Because let's face it--sure, there are odd things here and there that more or less require melee and a handful that's more easily handled by them, but it's not really something that's in massive demand.

[Dangg]

Ever notice you never hear guilds like method or paragon talking about how melee are useless and ranged are amazing? .

LOL what?

Top guilds point out that ranged are more valuable for most progression encounters for YEARS. Some tiers and bosses were worse than others, this tier it's pretty balanced compared to the Blackhand disaster.


http://manaflask.com/de/articles/the...ew-with-method

Obviously boomkins and were the OP class in this tier, were there any other strong speccs and which were the absolute worst ones?

Sparkuggz: I´d say melee suffered hard this tier compared to previous ones. Mage/Warlock/Moonkin were all super strong on nearly all fights and hunters were surprisingly better than expected. Class wise I'd say enhancement shaman and elemental shaman just didn't find any use in this tier at all. Every other class nearly has a niche where they are the best at (shadow priest on demand burst, warrior execute burst etc.), where shaman just feels like a class you bring to clear trash faster aka. sustained AoE. That being said, for the normal raiding guild I don't see class stacking being needed as much as people think. Most fights can be done with any setup, with a few fights requiring a certain amount of classes, but when it's cutting edge you obviously aim to play with the best setup possible.

Quyncy: I really have to disagree with what most people are saying about balance druids. We had our raidcomp for Blackhand already planned before even entering the instance on heroic difficulty. We knew Balance druid are "ok" on most fights and "good" on Blackhand. Starfall is in my opinion completely overrated, it provides constant aoe dmg but no burst aoe so it is not really overpowered in most cases (hi cataclysm/bladestorm!). Just because we played with 4 balance druids on Blackhand doesn't mean any other class couldn't have done it. The best specs in my opinion were : Demo WL/Mage(fire+arcane)/Hunter/Balance druid. What was problematic with this raid tier was that melees were, except for Rogues (survivability) and Warriors (sick execute damage) kind of useless, the bosses weren't melee friendly at all. That is why I, for example, had to play balance druid again.

I feel stupid that I even need to post that quote, because you're so obviously wrong.

[Bigbazz]

Our first Tyrant Velhari HC kill had 3 DPS Warriors and an Enhancement Shaman in a 10man group, it was a supremely clean and well executed kill. Definitely didn't feel limited by not having more ranged. Some people saying ranged is better because of dealing with mechanics, while ignoring that those mechanics can be delt with by melee too.

[FobManX]

For 99% of guilds, you want balance, and you want good players. Obviously the top 1% world first type guilds can stack whatever class they want and have top notch players playing them but that simply isn't the case for the rest of us mere mortals.

[Korshay]

Our first Tyrant Velhari HC kill had 3 DPS Warriors and an Enhancement Shaman in a 10man group, it was a supremely clean and well executed kill. Definitely didn't feel limited by not having more ranged. Some people saying ranged is better because of dealing with mechanics, while ignoring that those mechanics can be delt with by melee too.

Scale that ratio to 20-man, and 10 melee crowding Tyrant now has that 'this is going to suck' factor for tempest.

[Finbezz]

Bad melee are a burden which is exactly the same statement as a bad ranged...

Good Rogue > Most good ranged classes.

/end

You must have never done any cutting edge progression then.

For the most part you want a bare minimum of melee to deal with various mechanics(Interrupts, kilrogg soak) beyond that, they are a burden. Every melee on Iskar is one less ranged to spread focused blast. Every melee beyond necessary to soak kilrogg puddle is a huge burden since death throes does massive damage to them plus unable to hit globules for the most part. Every melee on Mannoroth is another dps who can't kill infernals. The list goes on.

Take this with a grain of salt if you're just pugging heroic or whatever. Though, I suppose if you're doing mythic I hope none of this is news.

[Zelendria]

WTF has cutting edge progression got to do with normal people raiding? And no not only am I not good enough I wouldn't do it if I was

Methods Archi vid I suppose just about passes as cutting edge progression and it has 3 Hunters, 2 Warriors, 2 Rogues, 2 Mages, 2 Boomies, 1 Lock, 1 SPriest and 1 DK.
Yep that's absolutely 100% ranged stacked. Other than Hunters the best ranged classes are equal in number to the best melee

Grain of salt taken

Point? Or did you just want to wave your dick around about cutting edge progression?

[kamuimac]

Yes, I have heard that many times. But then why guilds stubbornly take melee in raid if a full ranged team would be superior?

for gearing up purposes - you simply cannot efectively gear up raid consisting only of range in decent time frame.

[Finbezz]

WTF has cutting edge progression got to do with normal people raiding? And no not only am I not good enough I wouldn't do it if I was

Methods Archi vid I suppose just about passes as cutting edge progression and it has 3 Hunters, 2 Warriors, 2 Rogues, 2 Mages, 2 Boomies, 1 Lock, 1 SPriest and 1 DK.
Yep that's absolutely 100% ranged stacked. Other than Hunters the best ranged classes are equal in number to the best melee

Grain of salt taken

Point? Or did you just want to wave your dick around about cutting edge progression?

Don't make a gigantic generalization if you don't want to get smacked.

[Demeia]

Our raid is melee heavy and we have had problems throughout this x-pac. I would be monumentally surprised if they suddenly disappeared in this tier. The question really of melee versus range really should come down to, "are you screwed if you have too many ranged or melee?" It's not practical for most raids to balance, we bring who is on and that's the point of flex.