I find it hard to become Casual. Does that make sense?

[Granyala]

Honestly, I think 6.2 solves "raid or die" for casuals, given that you can get gear as good as normal HFC just by doing Tanaan Jungle content.

No it doesn't solve the problem at all.
Casuals want to be ENTERTAINED. Gear well gear is nice and all, but if the process of getting said gear is a not entertaining, soul crushingly boring grind, the casual that values his sparse free time will say: "I'll go play something entertaining instead".

[Servasus]

It's not just you, it's also the game and the community.
Everything is meant as a stepping stone into raiding. The game pushes you as hard as it canto raid.
Raiding comes with the need of "being optimal" due to scrutiny from other players and due to encounter restrictions which the higher levels of difficulty impose.

If they (one day) manage to solve the "raid or unsub till next patch b/c there is no interesting way of progression" problem one day, it will become easier to enjoy WoW at a casual rate.

Still, as soon as you want to do raids, even with pugs, you will not be able to escape the "need to optimize". WoWs community is OBSESSED with theoretical optimization, to a point that makes my shake of laughter... esp if these "optimally reforge or bust!!11" types proceed to fail at basic movement during a bossfight.

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Same here. If you'd asked me 6 months ago I'd have said "hell no I wanna raid next expansion too". But a number of things happened in HFC which made me pretty much quit raiding cold turkey. Don't even have any desire to wrap up the 4 remaining HFC HC kills anymore. I'll probably screw him in LFR just to "see the boss" and be done with it. (And basically wow till next expansion, IF that expansion is interesting)

Weird, but the realization set in that raiding has become more of a chore than a hobby and being swapped out b/c of crap class DPS on some encounters... man esp the latter was a huge eye opener that made me question "why the hell do I put up with this?!".

See, but that's your opinion. You have just come to a point where an aspect of the game is no longer fun for you. Raiding hasn't changed fundamentally. Min/maxing has existed since the beginning of the game. I'm having more fun in HFC than I've had in a very, very long time. I feel like it's one of the best raid instances Blizzard has ever created. And I've been playing for 7 years now, and raiding for 6 of those years. The last 2 years of raiding I have spent with the same guild. The raiding is good right now. I'm sorry you're no longer enjoying it, but there are lots of people feeling passionately the opposite as you.

[Granyala]

The raiding is good right now. I'm sorry you're no longer enjoying it, but there are lots of people feeling passionately the opposite as you.

You didn't get the point of my post.

I raided for 8.5 years and I am very well aware that HFC is a great Tier, with cool bosses and that raiding didn't change that much (I always raided 25man format, so even the nuking of 10m HC didn't affect me).
I am simply burned out after 8.5 years of 90%+ attendance + shadow being utter crap (again) isn't helping the issue either.
Nothing interesting to see here and not the point of my post.

The need to be "optimal" as soon as you want to enter group content (that includes ridiculous item level/achievement restrictions by PuGs) is set by the community. If you want to see raids outside of LFR, you will NOT be able to escape that, unless you go to the length of creating/finding new guild with like minded non competitive individuals. Well, good luck with that, considering wows dwindling playerbase.

[babyback]

No it doesn't solve the problem at all.
Casuals want to be ENTERTAINED. Gear well gear is nice and all, but if the process of getting said gear is a not entertaining, soul crushingly boring grind, the casual that values his sparse free time will say: "I'll go play something entertaining instead".

Wow is ten years old at it came from a time when mmorpgs was all about progressing your character and will always be the core of the game. There are a few things you can do in wow wich arent based on progressing your character with gear pet battles e.g

When it all comes down the majority will still raid or pvp and thats what Blizzard will focus on.

[Granyala]

Wow is ten years old at it came from a time when mmorpgs was all about progressing your character and will always be the core of the game. There are a few things you can do in wow wich arent based on progressing your character with gear pet battles e.g

When it all comes down the majority will still raid or pvp and thats what Blizzard will focus on.

Quite right, but calling a mindless Apexis grind the solution to the "raid or die" problem because it offers close to normal mode gear is a little far fetched, don't you think?

[HeedmySpeed]

The way I understood your post is you don't want end game content?

This is kind of an absurd post because to me it sounds like a "difficulty" issue. Because I get the vibe you'd be OK with end game content that was just as easy to do as leveling or 5 mans, correct? So you can take it at a leisurely pace and not worry about optimizing because you don't need to.

Essentially it feels like you don't want progression past leveling? Maybe I'm confused.

[Usagi Senshi]

See, but that's your opinion. You have just come to a point where an aspect of the game is no longer fun for you. Raiding hasn't changed fundamentally. Min/maxing has existed since the beginning of the game. I'm having more fun in HFC than I've had in a very, very long time. I feel like it's one of the best raid instances Blizzard has ever created. And I've been playing for 7 years now, and raiding for 6 of those years. The last 2 years of raiding I have spent with the same guild. The raiding is good right now. I'm sorry you're no longer enjoying it, but there are lots of people feeling passionately the opposite as you.

I'll be more direct and the opposite of people here. I hope they break raiding and the game can honestly do just fine without it. You just need developers that give a damn about that route because the current ones use raiding as a crutch and a means to an end. Keep in mind that MMOs weren't built for raiding and I hate it when players get into that mindset that that's all MMOs are and have to be.

I raided for 9 of my 10+ (I'm not a shit player too btw, I raided at a pretty decent to high level on my enhance shaman) years in this game and its only gotten worse in the last few. Yes, the last few raids were fantastic but not when it comes at the expense of the rest of the game I'm afraid.

Taking the cool looking and good gear out of LFR pissed me off as well because that was how I had fun on my alts. Demolishing 10-man raiding was the straw that broke my back though and 3 months after WoD (and joining 3 failed guilds who couldn't get past 3-4 bosses in Mythic), I quit and went full time in FFXIV. That game has the casual raiding system down to a science that WoW should be at. Waaaay better dungeon systems too.

They also have quest progression too and a game-wide linked story from leveling to raiding. I'd like to see Blizzard pull that one off.

[Granyala]

The way I understood it was that he dislikes feeling pressured to optimize his character, which is mostly a community / his imagination thing, because, unless you raid heroic/mythic, the game doesn't ask for much optimization.

I would concur to that, because I hate optimization freaks that are nazi about it in content that doesn't require it.

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Yes, the last few raids were fantastic but not when it comes at the expense of the rest of the game I'm afraid.

Amen to that. Esp in terms of small group content (Dungeons).

I love playing healers & tanks, but my only options are LFR and (the same) raid on a higher difficulty to play them properly.
I really enjoy playing my white mage in dungeons.

[Barathe0n]

I believe the progression system is what keeps people playing WoW for so long compared to other MMOs. It sounds like you would really enjoy Guild Wars 2 as the game is designed so the 'competitive' content doesn't feel forced and progression doesn't feel necessary after obtaining full exotics which only takes a short time.

[Deleted]

I find it hard to become Casual. Does that make sense?

Stop troubling your cute little head so much,
Go spend a few hours grinding some pixels.

[dixincide]

I ask, How old are you? and What does your daily routine consist of?

I was all for hardcore raiding in highschool, because it was that or drugs.
In college I was being social and used WoW to keep up with friends while we were all far away.
Today. I raid or I go to the gym, pursue hobbies and love interests, cook.


as you take on more things in real life you'll have less and less time for WoW and being casual will make more sense.

[Deleted]

It helps to step back and get off the gear treadmill. It didn't fully happen until I did that. As long as I can get done what I want to get done, my gear is fine. Always nice to get an upgrade but I'm not overly interested in just zerging through stuff either by over-gearing it.

This did it for me. I figured out that gear is not a goal, but just a means to an end. Whatever end.
My current goals are mostly doing old content for achievements/pets/mounts/transmog, so my gear is shit for WoD but suits fine for my current play style. Upgrades are always nice, but atm my followers are better equipped then I am.

[Lochton]

Finding myself at ease with the game, a casual playstyle and attitude made all the expansions much better. I've seen the peek of raiding and almost kissed that Glad ranking, but I always fall back to who I feel comfortable with. I raid at what people would call normal amount (3 days x 3-4 hours). After that, I return to farming, leveling another alt, quests and dungeons - even PvP. Running as an RBG member as well.

I don't feel stressed by the games or choices, nor do I feel the need to take charge on changes - I share the feedbark I feel is needed and then sit back.

But apparently I am wrong about the casual sense of the word.

[Deleted]

But apparently I am wrong about the casual sense of the word.

You mean the incredibly subjective term that means something different to everyone?

[Lochton]

You mean the incredibly subjective term that means something different to everyone?

Indeed I do ^^ Apparently my casual life isn't the same as the casual brand people mark on other people.




Don't like branding anyways.