get ready

Deleted · 2015-08-01, 12:42 PM

Current Arms warrior design is slow to play, but the hits are hard. This causes problems with damage distribution as Mortal Strike and Execute are dealing most of the warrior damage, which causes problems on progress for example if you don't get to execute phase at all because of low warrior damage (most probably does not happen, but it's not fun being "reliant" on execute). This has been bandaid fixed with new tier set bonus which grants lots of rage via TFB and makes Rend reset MS cd.

- Boost up the APM a bit, revert the rage generation nerf from WOD beta? nerf ability damage slightly to compensate for increased APM, if it's needed.

- Rehaul of Level 45 talents

-Make Sudden Death as basline proc.

-Remove TFB

-Make Slam basline, and make it work like in MOP (X yard AOE while used during Sweeping Strikes). It also needs to scale from mastery.

T45 talents: One idea would be that one talent boosts single target filler, one boosts Sweeping Strikes (in place of TFB) and then one talent remains that I haven't thinked of. So mostly boring, passive talent choices depending on the encounter. Feel free to suggest something else.

- Bladestorm also needs a buff as it's alot weaker when compared to fury bladestorm. But this change could cause balancing issues between fury and arms AOE.

- Rend is old mechanic of warriors, but currently it does nothing but damage over time, in the past it gave OP procs which made it more interesting. But currently it cannot proc anything interesting except reset MS cd (wait what

) as we don't have anything else to proc. Maybe Sudden Death could be build in rend, like melee attacks on rended target have chance to proc Sudden Death, so Enchanced rend would not just be additional auto attack damage.

Remove WW, it's just bland button which can be replaced with 5.4 era Slam.

I don't really see how Overpower would make an comeback as we have worthless Slam to be used, only advantage(s) OP had over slam was 1 sec GCD, could not be dodged, parried or blocked and it reduced cd of MS during 5.4. Stance dancing either is not coming back so we will not see any kind of 4.3 gameplay of warriors.

Deleted · 2015-08-01, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Guhnz

Fury should be able to wield 4 weapons: two melee and two ranged. All at the same time. Bladestorm should be active at all times and we just spin around slicing and shooting everything in sight. Unfortunately, Blizz will make versatility our best stat.

Arms should get an overhaul to its current overhaul. Rend's last burst tick literall makes targets explode and grosses out all nearby enemies and allies within 8 yards. 10 second debuff of vomiting will leave all players unable to control their character.

would buy!

on topic: the only thing i wish for is a less "oh i procced, lets do this" vs "oh no procs, lets just chill for 10 more seconds" playstyle.

**Wilwind** · 2015-08-01, 04:20 PM

I still think that what warriors DO NOT need is a secondary resource, what needs to happen is that the primary resource (rage obv.) needs to have a management style other than, "I are angry enuf? gud, can smash." I posted this in another forum as a possible talent but after thinking it over I think it should be baseline for the DPS specs (i main prot and think it is fantastic, minus shield barrier). That is, a system by which managing high levels of rage for periods of time incite a sort of personal berserk / bloodlust, as well as a damage increase. This being that post some amount of rage (i believe i used 60 in the other thread because that's half, further assuming the warrior isn't stupid and has the rage pool glyph) an exponential curve of %attack power gain begins and further expanding on my previous idea, above 100 results in a 8% crit dmg increase (yes, i did just pull that number out of my ass, just wanted it to be like a small recklessness effect for high rage, like an execute dump). Then if you were able to maintain your rage above 75 or 80 for like 6 sec, all of your rage would be consumed and a sort of special attack would go off, in the other thread i proposed a frontal cone AoE about the size of shockwave, perhaps wider and shorter slightly, dealing x%wep dmg + x% AP (notice all the rage was consumed, so the attack power bonus from the rage wouldn't apply here) every .5 sec for 3 sec.

Though if it is baseline and not a talent, this effect wouldn't make any sense. Instead, how about rotational smoothing, like above 90 rage your GCD is reduced by .25 sec.

I just think "warriors should be simple" is a stupid insinuation, warriors should be just as complex as any other class at the end game, sure for noobs leveling their first character, cutting their teeth so to speak, a warrior is simple during leveling and should be, but at the absolute pinnacle of the game, a raiding environment the class should feel just as deep and versatile as any other class. I think giving the class a more cerebral, plan out your rage spending play style would go a long way to doing just that.

EDIT ----

Just came to me, recklessness (seeing as though it's our swifty macro put into one button) would gain the effect of halving rage costs for the duration so you could more easily maintain high rage during burst.

**Archimtiros** · 2015-08-01, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by Yiris

Current Arms warrior design is slow to play, but the hits are hard. This causes problems with damage distribution as Mortal Strike and Execute are dealing most of the warrior damage, which causes problems on progress for example if you don't get to execute phase at all because of low warrior damage (most probably does not happen, but it's not fun being "reliant" on execute). This has been bandaid fixed with new tier set bonus which grants lots of rage via TFB and makes Rend reset MS cd.

- Boost up the APM a bit, revert the rage generation nerf from WOD beta? nerf ability damage slightly to compensate for increased APM, if it's needed.

- Rehaul of Level 45 talents

-Make Sudden Death as basline proc.

-Remove TFB

-Make Slam basline, and make it work like in MOP (X yard AOE while used during Sweeping Strikes). It also needs to scale from mastery.

T45 talents: One idea would be that one talent boosts single target filler, one boosts Sweeping Strikes (in place of TFB) and then one talent remains that I haven't thinked of. So mostly boring, passive talent choices depending on the encounter. Feel free to suggest something else.

- Bladestorm also needs a buff as it's alot weaker when compared to fury bladestorm. But this change could cause balancing issues between fury and arms AOE.

- Rend is old mechanic of warriors, but currently it does nothing but damage over time, in the past it gave OP procs which made it more interesting. But currently it cannot proc anything interesting except reset MS cd (wait what

) as we don't have anything else to proc. Maybe Sudden Death could be build in rend, like melee attacks on rended target have chance to proc Sudden Death, so Enchanced rend would not just be additional auto attack damage.

Remove WW, it's just bland button which can be replaced with 5.4 era Slam.

I don't really see how Overpower would make an comeback as we have worthless Slam to be used, only advantage(s) OP had over slam was 1 sec GCD, could not be dodged, parried or blocked and it reduced cd of MS during 5.4. Stance dancing either is not coming back so we will not see any kind of 4.3 gameplay of warriors.

The problem with your idea, where does the choice come in with your proposed Tier 45?

Talents are supposed to be choices, not automatic decisions based on the number of targets. That's the problem that the current Warrior talent tree has, just about each tier has a separate ST and AoE option. That isn't choice, and defeats the purpose of the system.

Of course there will always be one mathematically better option for certain encounters, but if the abilities are at least similar in functionality, they can be tuned close enough that there should be enough leeway to pick which one you want. Good example being the way they've tuned racials this expansion.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Drarakaun

I just think "warriors should be simple" is a stupid insinuation, warriors should be just as complex as any other class at the end game,

It's not that Warriors should be simple, it's that the game is pretty simple at it's core, and doesn't benefit from awkward, difficult to explain and difficult to feel mechanics, like shaving off .25s of a GCD. Where is the real benefit in that?

Granted Warriors have been dumbed down a lot this expansion, but how simple a class feels I think really has more to do with most players familiarity with it than anything else. 5.4 Fury was hated by many, but was actually one of the easiest, most consistent specs in the game when you understood it's rotation properly.

The game is designed with casuals in mind, classes don't need to have a bunch of convoluted, dynamic abilities to be fun. They just need to engage the player, keep them watching the rotation, mashing buttons, and feel rewarding to play. Things like Gladiator fall into this category. SpamStrike aside, it's stupid easy to play but greatly enjoyed by many because the rotation works.

Deleted · 2015-08-01, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Archimtiros

The problem with your idea, where does the choice come in with your proposed Tier 45?

Talents are supposed to be choices, not automatic decisions based on the number of targets. That's the problem that the current Warrior talent tree has, just about each tier has a separate ST and AoE option. That isn't choice, and defeats the purpose of the system.

Of course there will always be one mathematically better option for certain encounters, but if the abilities are at least similar in functionality, they can be tuned close enough that there should be enough leeway to pick which one you want. Good example being the way they've tuned racials this expansion.
.

TFB/Sudden Death and Furious Strikes/Sudden Death have achived the Choice option pretty fine to be honest. I mean atleast FS and SD have achived that, currently TFB is far superior because of bandaid tier bonus for arms. If I remember correctly TFB was superior to Sudden Death in start of WOD, until they decided to buff mastery for arms (for single target of course).

It's really hard to make working talent system by just reworking one tier. When choices are as you said, scattered around it's really easy to make cookie cutter build for single target and AoE.

Whole warrior talent tree needs a rework tbh:

T15 is fine as it is, all of them are choices, and they suit different situations perfectly. That said there isn't really wrong or right choices.

T30 is problematic and needs adjustments as Enraged Regenration is just far superior for example to Second Wind or Impending Victory. Most of the time atleast this is the case.

T45 is fine for fury with the exception of UQT, which could be passive what would work the way you suggested (CD reset on non-crit). Nothing really came to my mind, while I was writing my post for arms. If the whole talent tree gets redone then I could start thinking more ideas, if I am even wise enough to come with such things.

T60 is seen as the CC tier for warriors, but the are clear choices here Storm Bolt and Dragon Roar, first for Single target and latter for AoE.

T75 is utility tier but Vigilance gets picked most for PvE as it's just strongest, Safeguard being very risky to use and Mass spell reflect is used if you can cheese something with it

T90 is cooldown tier, both specs have pros on cons here on BB and Avatar (I am not sure how close they are for each other for both fury and arms). Bladestorm could share tier with other AoE talent(s)

T100 is problems again, Siegebreaker is good for fury, but worse for arms when compared to Ravager on single target. Anger Management has it's uses when fight is just the right duration, but even then its wierd talent to use. I also don't get why Siegebreaker replaces our core iconic core CC ability.

That being said I think talents should be scattered into thier own "tiers": Charge, Sustaining (healing), Specs own single target tier (as it's currently), CC (maybe remove damage from this tier's abilities?), Raid utility tier, Cooldown tier, and one tier for enhancing AoE.

Again, just my raw ideas. Feel free to improve or say what could be better.

**Rorke** · 2015-08-01, 10:40 PM

Siegebreaker is garbage for Arms. It should've been a talent choice that was specific to Fury only and Arms would have something else. Too late for that now.

I also don't get why Siegebreaker replaces our core iconic core CC ability.

PvP.

**Archimtiros** · 2015-08-01, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by Yiris

TFB/Sudden Death and Furious Strikes/Sudden Death have achived the Choice option pretty fine to be honest. I mean atleast FS and SD have achived that, currently TFB is far superior because of bandaid tier bonus for arms. If I remember correctly TFB was superior to Sudden Death in start of WOD, until they decided to buff mastery for arms (for single target of course).

No, they haven't. TfB is the one and only choice for multi target for Arms. For single target there is some amount of harmony, TfB was decent until Mastery got buffed out the ass, but since then it's been in the gutter (minus T18 pre-nerf). For Fury the choices are pretty decently from a mechanical standpoint, only the balancing sucks.

It's really hard to make working talent system by just reworking one tier. When choices are as you said, scattered around it's really easy to make cookie cutter build for single target and AoE.

Whole warrior talent tree needs a rework tbh: