Most core changes since vanilla has made WoW a worse game

[Deleted]

There were ret paladin videos, yes.

This is very easy to prove. Do you want me to write you a list?

The ret videos were usually several minutes long for a single kill, meanwhile warrior videos were about warrior running around killing one person within 5 seconds of engaging them.

Warriors were very popular too. And yes, ret was a broken spec. Your friends at Blizzard never really fixed it until years later, then GC added Holy Power. I'd still take the Wrath ret paladin over the current one. Watch some Tehseus videos, although Vanguards is awesome too.

I remember rogues dueling ret paladins. Ret would get warrior down to 80% while ret was almost dead. Bubble. Heal heal heal heal. Duel begins again. warrior is at 50%, warrior almost dead again. Lay on hands. Warrior 20%, paladin 20%. Bubble, heal heal heal heal heal. They won duels because they had cheesy 1v1 mechanics, but you never took rets into serious battleground games. But again, what you're talking about is a choice between SPEC, not talents within said spec.

Like I said, ret wasn't competitive in a BG environment. You needed a great two handed weapon + Engineering bombs to make the spec work. It was incredibly fun *despite being a support spec*. Players found ways to make the class play as a knight instead of a cleric.

Class homogenization, again, has little to do with talent choice. Yes, classes got homogenized. No, it has nothing to do with talents and choice between said talents.

The more choices you create, the greater the possibility for variety.

Instead of having a handful of classes and specs dominating the food chain, there could be many.

But that would require investing more in the game.

The question is: what if we don't want to live in your world?

[Deleted]

Except that there was no choice. You took that 5% crit talent because it was the best, and there was no choice between 5% crit or 10% damage that would vary based on the situation. You took the best loadout or you were sub optimal. When they switched from the old talent system to the new one, they just rolled all of the passive talents that you were taking anyway into the class, and gave you several tiers, each with a choice between 3 different talents.

You can argue whether or not you found it more fun, or if it felt better to you, but the fact remains there was no real choice. Meanwhile you can go to class forums since the new talents and find giant threads about which talent of a certain tree is better. For some it's obvious and apparent which talent is better, for others not so much. The only time discussions over choice ever happened in the old talent system, those who wanted to be special snowflakes were usually trounced upon by logs showing just how wrong they were.

There was lot og choices for you with old talents. Yse you had 1 optimal build just like we have now with new talents but you had many builds what you could build. I really enyojed fire mage PvP back in WOTLK with talents like Firestarterd or Fiery Payback. Try this spec in PvP now and you will not kill single player becouse talents doesnt offer any choices to build pvp fire build. No old talents were better in many aspects.

I will rahter have 30 passive talents and 5 active skill what i can pick from in 1 tree. Then 21 talents for every spec which i can choose only 7 of them and most of them are useless anyway. + New talnets are reason why classes are so homogenized now. Everybody got talnets with stun, silence, dmg boost, some kind of survival and cc. Same for every class and spec.

[deniter]

TBH, if ret paladins would had been even close to rogues, mages or even warriors dps wise, the class would had been broken. They had too much heals and utilities compared to many other classes and on top of that they should had been on top dps as well? No chance. Same for shamans and druids. That was the magic in vanilla, you had classes for every playstyle. Wanted a solo friendly class which can do a little bit of everything? You took a paladin or a druid. Wanted to play with your warrior friend? You chose priest.

Classes were under-developed in vanilla; paladins couldn't tank even though they had a prot spec, talents had no role in this. They just lacked proper skills to tank effectively. Same can be said for druids. That doesn't mean the talent system was bad, they just didn't fix it until TBC. But having a point to spend every time you leveled was great, it made leveling up feel special. Now you get a new level every 15 mins and most of the time you don't even notice the whole thing.

[Sansnom]

I cleared all wrath dungeons in tbc gear as soon as they were available to play with my guildees.

Either wrath dungeons were superbly easy, or im part of an elite crowd with superior intellect.

Ill let you decide.

It really depends on the quality of your gear. I ran some Wrath dungeons, normal, with a guildmate who was in TBC gear. He did fine. But he was in TBC raid gear. I do not recall which tier. And yes, the quality of his existing TBC gear were superior to the WoTLK green. So what are you trying to prove?

WoTLK easier than BC? Yes. Some, it not most, were. But they were not the AoE multiple pack pulls many people claimed. That came later when people re-ran those dungeons in raid gear for Emblems.