Do you want split clears made impossible in Legion?

[Nnyco]

Forcin personal loot is a dumb idea, "split clears" how you call em, is only a problem with a small fraction of people, aka mythic raiders

i dont think anyone else has a problem with it, just leave it as it is

[Calaba]

Forcin personal loot is a dumb idea, "split clears" how you call em, is only a problem with a small fraction of people, aka mythic raiders

i dont think anyone else has a problem with it, just leave it as it is

It's a rapidly growning fraction, that's the problem. Yes, it's mostly for mythic raiding purposes, but i know of one guild (not naming names here), that used it on a week up to a archimonde hc kill, just because they were able to field 3 heroic runs on earlier bosses, so why not focus all loot on 30 players. It's an idea that's spreading, and before long will be a clearly growing trend on group finder. While previously it was the preserve of the top 50 guilds, it's now regularly seen in the top 500, soon every PUG will be at it.

[Woobels]

It's a rapidly growning fraction, that's the problem. Yes, it's mostly for mythic raiding purposes, but i know of one guild (not naming names here), that used it on a week up to a archimonde hc kill, just because they were able to field 3 heroic runs on earlier bosses, so why not focus all loot on 30 players. It's an idea that's spreading, and before long will be a clearly growing trend on group finder. While previously it was the preserve of the top 50 guilds, it's now regularly seen in the top 500, soon every PUG will be at it.

How would you ever organize split runs in pugs.

[Toastyame]

It's a rapidly growning fraction, that's the problem.

I really don't think it is. I wouldn't even list guilds that require 1 alt or do 2 split runs into this category. Gearing alts is simply 10x easier than it's ever been, so it's not unrealistic that people are going to want you to have another level 100. I've had friends in these US 100-200 guilds that do require 1 alt and their split runs never really work. Also, those type of guilds are completely optional. For every world 500 guild that does split runs, there's a dozen others in the same region, running the same hours and are similar progression. It however isn't optional for guilds competing for top 10 world/region 1st because the state of cutting edge progression.

[Wilderness]

It's a rapidly growning fraction, that's the problem. Yes, it's mostly for mythic raiding purposes, but i know of one guild (not naming names here), that used it on a week up to a archimonde hc kill, just because they were able to field 3 heroic runs on earlier bosses, so why not focus all loot on 30 players. It's an idea that's spreading, and before long will be a clearly growing trend on group finder. While previously it was the preserve of the top 50 guilds, it's now regularly seen in the top 500, soon every PUG will be at it.

Split runs in PUGs? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

You're overestimating the fraction of players that currently does this, and definitely going well overboard in how big that fraction is going to grow to. There are diminishing returns for most guilds doing it outside of the top 100, maybe 200. Those guilds don't have a ton of geared alts, and they don't play those alts as well as the players in higher ranked guilds. They aren't blazing through heroic multiple times - if they do split runs they are using a decent amount of raid time doing that where they could be getting pulls in. Yes, there is usually a boss or two each tier that's a gearcheck, but for the most part, world 200, 300, 400 guilds don't need a few more trinkets and a bit more ilvl to progress - they need pulls. Their general pace of progression through an instance means they will have multiple mythic clears under their belt before they get deeper in and will almost always have the gear they need by the time they get to a boss that's more of a gear check. They need to get reps in, and hammer the strats into each player involved. Especially since those guilds are generally raiding 3-4 days a week, doubling or tripling your farm time before progress is mostly not an efficient use of their time.

Obviously more gear makes things easier as you go, but you are completely ignoring how much less effectively lower ranked guilds can do split runs, and how that quickly turns into diminishing returns. You're never going to have world 700 guilds doing split runs because its never going to be worth their time, and they are never going to have the right setup to do so. You don't have a rapidly growing fraction, you have a fraction that's grown mostly as much as it is going to - and where a portion of those guilds that do it are actually hurting themselves in the long run.

I understand why the higher ranked guilds don't like it at all, but I've yet to think of or see any solution that doesn't negatively impact way more players than those that are "forced" to do split runs.

[kidsafe]

When I see 700th ranked 5/13M guilds doing split heroic runs for no good reason, it sure seems like a problem. At some point you need to save the idiots from themselves.

[xiic]

I hope they do something about split runs. Mainly because my guild is one of the few in the top 100 US that doesn't do any at all and I really don't want to have to start next expansion. Not doing any split runs just puts us too far behind at the start, it really puts a hamper on raid moral seeing guilds we will easily beat by the end clear the first few bosses faster than us.

[Toastyame]

I hope they do something about split runs. Mainly because my guild is one of the few in the top 100 US that doesn't do any at all and I really don't want to have to start next expansion. Not doing any split runs just puts us too far behind at the start, it really puts a hamper on raid moral seeing guilds we will easily beat by the end clear the first few bosses faster than us.

If you know you're going to beat them why does it bother you? Why not strive to be the best "no split runs" guild out there just like guilds strive to be the best 2 day a week guild or best guild that raids "only X hours"? Or is it because there isn't a category on WoWprogress to track that?

Also I don't feel like we should focus on any guild that does 1 set of split runs that doesn't fall in the top 100 respectively. Guilds outside this amount are doing it most likely because they want to, not because they feel forced to. Many people enjoy playing another alt, or a guild feels it would benefit the guild and raiders happily agree. They aren't like "oh shit, we gotta retain our US 279th position, we better get our shit together". It just doesn't work like that and having this idea that it does only shows your bias. We should really be worrying about the burnout it causes players having to play 6 characters, 7 days a week for 2-3 weeks straight at the start of a new tier versus guilds that will have a difficult time even obtaining cutting edge. One group of players is forced to do splits to stay competitive, the other chooses to because they can.

I still feel limitations on split raiding need to exist. The content is finished way too quickly for some guilds because this means of gearing exists. Although Personal loot isn't ideal, because guilds will just do 3-4 runs on the same character in hopes for tier or trinkets (because they're OP every tier) it's a step into the right direction. Not a single person I know in top 10 guilds wants to keep split raiding happening.

[arr0gance]

When I see 700th ranked 5/13M guilds doing split heroic runs for no good reason, it sure seems like a problem. At some point you need to save the idiots from themselves.

Hitler had similar ideals. How'd that turn out?

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Not a single person I know in top 10 guilds wants to keep split raiding happening.

Anecdotal evidence called, he says hi.

[Germs]

I don't get why everyone is fumbling around for a fix when the fix was in the game way back in the day. Killing a boss locks you to the instance, every time you zone in you are in the same instance. No ability to re-kill a boss you have already killed that week on the same character. If someone has killed a boss with a different group, they can not help your group till resets on Tuesday. It's as simple as that, go back to the model WoW had successfully for so many years. If a guild wants to split runs with alts to funnel gear into their mains, they better be prepared to clear the whole thing with the same characters as they will be unable to merge groups and use their geared mains to finish the end bosses as they have done this entire expac. Content is being consumed at a much more rapid rate not because its easier, but because guilds are finding ways to increase their ilvl far beyond what was intended when the fight was tuned for progression.

[kidsafe]

I hope they do something about split runs. Mainly because my guild is one of the few in the top 100 US that doesn't do any at all and I really don't want to have to start next expansion. Not doing any split runs just puts us too far behind at the start, it really puts a hamper on raid moral seeing guilds we will easily beat by the end clear the first few bosses faster than us.

I don't think it hampered our guilds that much. It gave guilds equal to yours and mine a small advantage on a boss like Gorefiend where initially some guilds were hitting enrage. Then again, Gorefiend was never really a DPS issue for us because it coincided with most of us getting our legendary rings. The guild that killed Gorefiend before mine on this realm is now two bosses behind because the value of heroic gear has long since been amortized by real progression.

One guild I know who did things completely wrong was <Baddies> on Stormreaver. They did split runs, but didn't clear more than 7/13 in either. What the hell is the point of that when they aren't getting tier or the highest ilvl loot? They also initially refused to do heroic during official raid times once Mythic started and spent DAYS achieving 1/13M. But hey, they were US 1st on Heroic Blackhand...that counts for something, right?

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Hitler had similar ideals. How'd that turn out?

Yeah, not like regulation is a practice of any family, business or government. Yep, if you try to enforce ideals, you are clearly Hitler. I defer to your genius.

[Toastyame]

I don't get why everyone is fumbling around for a fix when the fix was in the game way back in the day. Killing a boss locks you to the instance, every time you zone in you are in the same instance. No ability to re-kill a boss you have already killed that week on the same character. If someone has killed a boss with a different group, they can not help your group till resets on Tuesday. It's as simple as that, go back to the model WoW had successfully for so many years. If a guild wants to split runs with alts to funnel gear into their mains, they better be prepared to clear the whole thing with the same characters as they will be unable to merge groups and use their geared mains to finish the end bosses as they have done this entire expac. Content is being consumed at a much more rapid rate not because its easier, but because guilds are finding ways to increase their ilvl far beyond what was intended when the fight was tuned for progression.

But that's what they do, no? Guilds run groups of 20 four times, 80 total characters. Seems like guilds already run 3-4 split runs clearing up until the last boss and sometimes only kill him for the ranking. Obviously Archimonde means a lot more for funneling than say Blackhand or Garrosh, but still. Even if that were the case, it would mean that these players just need to gear their alts even more, as well as learn to play them better, which seems like more work. I feel that doing 11/13H four times a week is better than doing 13/13H twice a week. Although the trinkets are great, I feel tier outweighs that. Also you're able to do normal Archimonde and still obtain the trinkets.

[shaithis]

What do the pro raiders think about this? Such a decision should be up to them, and not to the jealous "other 98%."