Poor Azeroth, is there anything left?

[ravenmoon]

Poor Azeroth and Draenor, suffering world ending scenarios every year, i'm surprised there's anyone left to keep fighting these epic threats. Everything all over is in ruins, it's just full of ruins, every race is surrounded by ruins and the adventure game just keeps spitting out more disasters and more destruction... we need a counter game.

i say bring on a building game, where we build up all those lands destroyed by sunderings, invasions, plagues, shatterings, cataclysms, Sha's, volcanos etc. Set on the same server/realms, tied to you but your own personal phase of the realm, but it's a game in itself entirely maybe one you buy one off, or subscribe too alongside the adventure game.


I'd love to have my night elf character, help his civilization rebuild their ancient cities and restore their kingdom, i'd love to see the forskaen rebuild ruined lorderon and the Elves rebuild Quel'thalas.. i'd love to see the trolls decide that stranglethorn vale is due a rebuilding effor, or the goblins decid it's time to exploit all the unearthed Kajite the volcanno must have spweed out and rebuild

if blizzard were smart, they'd release a building civilziation type game that plays in the current wow realms, but is a personal phase, wher eyou can effectively go through the zones as either faction and rebuild. so if you're alliance in Ashenvale you'd be a night elf rebuilding it, but in WEstfall you'd be a Human and in Bloodmyst you'd be Draenei rebuilding, but if you're Horde, you'd be an Orc building Ashenvale, or a Troll expanding into Westfall

it would be a game that combines both conquest RTS style where you can invade the neighbouring realm and defeat their troops, once you'ce conquered you can rebuild the zone, not all zones would be like that, when you stat in a racial area it would be a race controlled zone where you just build it up. You'd be building Duroatar up for example and then southern Barrens, then launching an invasion of Ashenvale and Azshara once you stamp out all the night elf resistance you'd build, it would be goblin building in Azshara, and orc in Ashenvale, so the architecture would depend on the zone and would be preset by the developers.

Lastly, when you've built a zone, you have to manage it, manage economy, resources, guard against threats, against invasions, some of the threats of the zones in the quest game might return, for e.g. devious satyrs might attempt to re-poison nature in the zone..s o you'd have to either switch to you adventurer toon to kill them or hire a player from the adventure game to deal withyour threat, or if you've invested in your militia, you'd use them, in the Darkshore case, you'd call on the Sentinels if you've built them up, or the Warrior trainers.

Yeah, as well as building an economy you'd be building class institutions, it would be helpful to have a strong druid institution, because that means you can regrow the forests of Ashenvale in a fraction of the time, ofc, not every race has access to every class, so if you need Demons dealt with you may have to petiiton a race that has demon hunters , if you want demons in your area you may have to go to a neighbouring race that uses warlocks and find one.

Each class group you develop has various functions that can help in the rebuilding and maintaining, Rogues are great to detect incoming invasions, or gain intel for an invasion you're planing, troop moevements etc, or assasinate high ranking officials that would cause a lot of trouble if they're around for the campaign,

you can do so much fun stuff once you've built an area, you'd have to manage it, link it up to previous zones, i mean, you're creating a Troll empire , from Stranglethorn vale, as you conquer zones and build troll settlemnts over the human ones in Duskwood or Westfall, you have to ensure economy, manage trolls.. each race would face challenges based on their character, if you don't deal with the poor and disenfranchised humans in the human kingdom, you'd leave open room for a rebellion, if you dn't marry that difficult but vital Lord so and so who's in charge of builders industry or has the richest lands, he will start turningother nobility against you which you either have to bribe, make concessions to or kill off to mangae. As you build you gain more resources and you rsie as a civil power, it would be different for night elves who don't have that sort of mentailtiy, and for trolls, in a troll situation, you'd probably be hexxing and being a lot more ruthelss, i don't see Troll citizens forming rebellions, but they may seek to put curses on you which if not countered or not cured, could have ill effects on your industry and your affirs. like you must manage the priesthood, becaus ethey're experts at handling the people etc.

And then there's social life, who do you maary? who do you get kids with, who do they socialise with, gotta stop your son from chasing that blood elf female or that orc female he's fallen love with , cos some are huge man traps others would be the best thing and you have to convince your spouse to allow an interracial coupling or fight prejudice from your kin when you want to take a night elf spouse to you.

Makes a change from all the destruction huh

[Packing an i5]

I would love to see Azeroth mended more to reflect the passing of time from cataclysm however cataclysm backfired on Blizzard. They spent most of their resources on overhauling the 1-60 leveling experience vs new content. It was the start of long droughts between patches and the next expansion.

They also experimented with making dungeons more difficult again and the bulk of casual players fled the game quickly. Cataclysm started at about the same peak of 12 million players that Wrath enjoyed and then it dipped down to 10 Mil for the first time ever in the Game's history it had lost significant subscriber count not gained it with a new expansion.

Cataclysm was targeted towards casual new players and ushered in the last great wave of new players into world of warcraft.

It earned Blizzard substantial revenues but it was the start of the decline and fragmentation of the community- treating the customer like an asshole who does not know whats good for them. Bioware started bashing their own customers and banning them from their forums for the many failures of Dragon Age 2, mass effect 3, Swtor. Its never a good idea to come off as hostile and argumentative as a developer, community manager for a game company.

Then theres the issue of players having an unsatisfiable lust for content, never being satisified or accepting the reality of accomplishable game design objectives within a short span of time and overall a feeling of entitlement. While at the same time some of this has gone on Blizzard has also started to show obvious signs of neglect for their game world.

My point if you missed it is this- That Reworking old Stuff leaves less time for New stuff so it would not justify the time and cost. That is why it is unlikely to ever see flying in Silvermoon/Azuremyst Isles , new models for old enemies(Murlocs, Gnolls, Kobolds) It may come eventually but it will never be a priority when they can offer boosts for sale instead and heirlooms so people can reach the new end game stuff they worked hard on quickly. Blizzard has said this many times Old stuff leaves less time for new stuff aka will cost a raid tier.

I think there is some truth to that that their time is precious but at the same time I also feel we have been lied too and theres more they could be doing. In between expansions there should be a good sized team working on changes in the old world to reflect the passing of time.

[ravenmoon]

I would love to see Azeroth mended more to reflect the passing of time from cataclysm however cataclysm backfired on Blizzard. They spent most of their resources on overhauling the 1-60 leveling experience vs new content. It was the start of long droughts between patches and the next expansion.

They also experimented with making dungeons more difficult again and the bulk of casual players fled the game quickly. Cataclysm started at about the same peak of 12 million players that Wrath enjoyed and then it dipped down to 10 Mil for the first time ever in the Game's history it had lost significant subscriber count not gained it with a new expansion.

Cataclysm was targeted towards casual new players and ushered in the last great wave of new players into world of warcraft.

It earned Blizzard substantial revenues but it was the start of the decline and fragmentation of the community- treating the customer like an asshole who does not know whats good for them. Bioware started bashing their own customers and banning them from their forums for the many failures of Dragon Age 2, mass effect 3, Swtor. Its never a good idea to come off as hostile and argumentative as a developer, community manager for a game company.

Then theres the issue of players having an unsatisfiable lust for content, never being satisified or accepting the reality of accomplishable game design objectives within a short span of time and overall a feeling of entitlement. While at the same time some of this has gone on Blizzard has also started to show obvious signs of neglect for their game world.

My point if you missed it is this- That Reworking old Stuff leaves less time for New stuff so it would not justify the time and cost. That is why it is unlikely to ever see flying in Silvermoon/Azuremyst Isles , new models for old enemies(Murlocs, Gnolls, Kobolds) It may come eventually but it will never be a priority when they can offer boosts for sale instead and heirlooms so people can reach the new end game stuff they worked hard on quickly. Blizzard has said this many times Old stuff leaves less time for new stuff aka will cost a raid tier.

I think there is some truth to that that their time is precious but at the same time I also feel we have been lied too and theres more they could be doing. In between expansions there should be a good sized team working on changes in the old world to reflect the passing of time.

I get your point, but i don't think you got mine. It would have to be an add-on game, with it's own team, own resources, and likely result in an add-on game sold in shops that you'd have to purchase if you want to play. The adventure game would continue giving new expansions , zones, quests etc.. but this one being on the same realm would be linked to your adventure game if you were subscribed to wow.

So whiles questing at level 110 in Surammar, everytime you went back to say Darkshore, it won't be the darkshore you left at the end of the questing phase at level 20, but the darkshore you would have been building up everytime you logged in as the Empire Builder.. all the old zones would be your personal phase, and instead you would see whatever development you'd have made in the building game. In time, if you conquered all the zones for your faction and build all of them up, everytime you returned to Azeroth you'd see your empire.. unless you phased into someone else's phase or the server's original phase

[Apanonar]

Imagine rebuilding Azeroth in a Warcraft 4 meets Black & White type game

[Detan]

I think they should fix all the zones changed from the cataclysm back to normal!

[ravenmoon]

I think they should fix all the zones changed from the cataclysm back to normal!

yeah, but to what end? if you do that in the adventure game, people will cry rehashed content, they'll show you how going back into the old one is not cost effective jus tto update things, and unappealing if new content just re-uses the existing zones -- can you imagine the cries of lazy, and ragequit you'd get ... no, if it's just the adventure game involved we won't get fixed zones and then if they do it just for the adventure game, we'll no new zones, and yet there is a desperate desire to see the ongoing world change.

so why not make a separate game where you get to rebuild the on going world into a vast empire and civilization? wher eyou can fix wrongs, repair what's been destoryed, restore, rule a kingdom, manage it, conquer stuff, in a way that's related to warcraft in warcraft areas?

everyone loves fantasy, there isn't a fantasy game that does that, who wouldn't be enchanted with building a fantasy kingdom? it's certainly an alternative to building a sim city like environment or an ancient roman one like Civilization or Ages of Empire... this would be popular, and it's already established

it's getting a movie done, this will make it's world even more popular in addition to the appeal of being a fantasy genre setting, it will have many more people who don't play games or are not into mmorpgs getting into it, proviiding alternatives like a strategy game or RTS wukk be a huge hit.

[angelmaz]

Asheron's Call 2 was about emerging into a shattered world after generations of living in shelters, and rebuilding it. WoW stole many of its greatest elements from that game, which is one of the best MMORPGs of all time. Unfortunately, it was (as is commonplace) rushed to launch before it was ready by its publisher, with the result that chat was broken for quite some time. AC2 never got critical mass and eventually had to shut down.

The genre would be in a far, far better place if AC2 had had the wild success of WoW. In many ways, the wild success of Vanilla came from imitation and not novel ideas. Blizzard's brilliant new ideas for the genre are why every expansion since TBC has taken the game farther down the toilet.

[Deleted]

At some point they will have to make a time skip or a re-origination. I was actually thinking that could happen at the end of this expansion with the pillars of creation.

[Sharps]

The old world, while static, could be taken as a place where people could actually live in. Towns, villages, dams, bridges, ports...all the requirements for crafting something that could be taken as a believable world worth defending. In Catacylsm, like a petulant child, Blizzard smashed and vandalized their own world without realizing the consequences of doing so. In a single player game, where you experience each locale as an isolated instance, this isn't much of an issue. But in an MMO, it kills immersion and believe-ability in the setting. Take the Human and Dwarf starting experience. Northshire is perpetually on fire and under Blackrock attack. Ironforge airport is forever on fire and under Dark Iron attack. Okay if you pass through this place once and could not return, but in an MMO where you might return or pass by or start another character, it begs the question of "Why hasn't these fires been put out? Oh, its just an infinite battlefield for questing..." Immersion shattered.

Not to mention the sheer ignorance of the Cata devs smashing iconic landmarks like the Stonewrought Damn, digging a ditch on fire in The Barrens, having a Tornado forever spinning in Westfall. Can we ever imagine normalcy returning to these places we visit and supposedly aid when massive structural and environment damage goes forever un-fixed? How does the Alliance and Horde fight all these wars when their homelands are still sundered, on fire, flooded, in constant battle? It's like leaving New Orleans eternally flooded. When the world environment was undamaged in key populated areas you could imagine day-to-day life. When it is left eternally shattered it is just a vapid questing experience leaning on simplistic shock value of old players who knew what things looked like beforehand, while new players are left ignorant or somewhat confused as they trudge through the vandalized rubble of the game world.

[ravenmoon]

The old world, while static, could be taken as a place where people could actually live in. Towns, villages, dams, bridges, ports...all the requirements for crafting something that could be taken as a believable world worth defending. In Catacylsm, like a petulant child, Blizzard smashed and vandalized their own world without realizing the consequences of doing so. In a single player game, where you experience each locale as an isolated instance, this isn't much of an issue. But in an MMO, it kills immersion and believe-ability in the setting. Take the Human and Dwarf starting experience. Northshire is perpetually on fire and under Blackrock attack. Ironforge airport is forever on fire and under Dark Iron attack. Okay if you pass through this place once and could not return, but in an MMO where you might return or pass by or start another character, it begs the question of "Why hasn't these fires been put out? Oh, its just an infinite battlefield for questing..." Immersion shattered.

Not to mention the sheer ignorance of the Cata devs smashing iconic landmarks like the Stonewrought Damn, digging a ditch on fire in The Barrens, having a Tornado forever spinning in Westfall. Can we ever imagine normalcy returning to these places we visit and supposedly aid when massive structural and environment damage goes forever un-fixed? How does the Alliance and Horde fight all these wars when their homelands are still sundered, on fire, flooded, in constant battle? It's like leaving New Orleans eternally flooded. When the world environment was undamaged in key populated areas you could imagine day-to-day life. When it is left eternally shattered it is just a vapid questing experience leaning on simplistic shock value of old players who knew what things looked like beforehand, while new players are left ignorant or somewhat confused as they trudge through the vandalized rubble of the game world.

exactly,..that's the whole point of this, you're making something of the old world the adventurers have mode on from, and making a game out of it that can appeal to different groups. It utilizes a vast digital world that has nothing happening in it once YOU have left there. and the beauty about it, you don't have to be an adventurer to play in this environment, i can easily see it been a separate game in WoW if you're not subscribed to WoW, that allows you just hang around and build up stuff, have a social life/manage or rule a kingdom, and expand it through conquest.. and if you're subscribed to WoW, you can easily switch to your adventurer mode and go do some raids, or help your zones you're building in overcome new threats .. only people who don't have an adventuerer cos they're not subscribed to wow would have to hire one to help them deal with threats or work on training their militia or mages or whatever institutions they've built up to deal with it.

this would be an excellent way of showcasing the power of an adventurer, because what 1 - adventuerer can steam role, will literally take an army or large team of mages or warriors or rogue or a composition you decide to entail to do.

A clever adaptiation would also allow text version of this to be done on browsers or phone apps, and when you go back home and log on to the game, your changes are instantly relayed to the server and your game environment is updated even though you were making decisions on your browser or app.

[ravenmoon]

At some point they will have to make a time skip or a re-origination. I was actually thinking that could happen at the end of this expansion with the pillars of creation.

yeah.. they have to, big time. My thinking would be in a WoW 2, or just before a WC4

they have options, two of the most likely would be to.

1. Use the building game as an opportunity to redesign the world zone by zone, set an 8 year target, that at least would have Azeroth's main continents updated. How? well the building game does have an end-zone state, this state would have to be created for each zone you can rebuild, the beauty is that they can use that as the start point for a WoW 2


and WoW 2 would just write an adventure with the end game state of the zones you built in the building game as their starting. You could do a WC 4 in that world environment, that takes you through the zones the adventure touches - and if your WoW2 continues after WC4, then it must adjust the zones affected by the WC4 events.