Ret Paladins: How do you feel?

[RagnorZ]

This thread reminds me of this video

[Morally Grey Storm]

I feel fine about Ret.

Only thing it needed was Inquisition removed, it was, the spec smoothed out and they really made it work well with a talent tree that really lets you choose your playstyle.

from the pve standpoint? Yeah, its the numbers that need tuning a bit. YEt one might say REt is a bit too much cooldown- and burst-oriented.

From pvp standpoint? Ret is a huge fething failure.

[Reghame]

I was just thinking the same thing - you're replacing one crazy ex-gf with another.

I'm not against Holy Power, and I think having it is an improvement over having nothing but personally wouldn't mind if HP went away and we had consumable seals, and a more intricate seal system built up with judgement playing a greater role in things and exorcism inciting a secondary effect. I've had dreams of this for expansions though and know it won't happen.

I honestly don't mind Holy Power, I wouldn't mind seeing it replaced with another mechanic to go off of, but nobody quite knows what to do with it. If they switch it for another mechanic similar to another class you'll just see "I feel like a warrior, I feel like a Monk, I feel like a Warlock" etc etc...

the seal system should be worked on and based off the cooldown system that ret has honestly. Either this or their removal ( although they are a key feature for paladins, seals actually dont do anything at all besides X increase)

As for your holy power statement, the thing most people are mislead by with holypower is that without it ret has no "mechanics", this is actually not true. rets always had a large importance on their cooldown management ( this does not mean only when you pop wings) and was by no means a press any button you can find for all the damagez. Sure in wrath ret had a hard time considering it was based off a priority system of which had no deeper impact and limited damage buttons all together with the high cooldowns they had. Only thing ret actually needed was more interaction on how to use their cooldowns OR had more things to fill that downtime that would give you gains.

For example, back in BC, ret did not have divine storm yet, and crusader strike and judge were on VERY large cooldowns. despite this ret had to game seals ( only slightly if you were ally if i remember that right) to where you still had to use CS and judge and exo when you could, but in that downtime had to play with your seals to manage your buffs and debuffs.

This type of play was not a bad thing on it's own, the only problem it did have was it was lacking in damage ( until later in BT and sunwell) and the seals themselves had the same problem they have now which was no IMMEDIATE impact on using the GCD for them, this made the mechanic feel like empowered seals does in the fact that spending so many no damage GCDs and occasionally on a bad line up with ability cooldowns to be clunky. if this were managed more i think this would be a nice role to fit ret into
(not saying go back to old many empty GCD ret twisting, but something similar, but thats just me. i think ret is a cooldown spec and should STAY as such, not a compo point, buff manager, cooldown abomination it is now where nothing really mixes well.)

[facelesssoul]

Ret in WoD is more like: "have X and Y trinkets and Tier Z bonuses or you utterly suck" Also i broke a couple of keyboards mashing buttons from DP procs. AoE cleave really sucks ass, a combat rogue could easily beat us facerolling with blade flurry unless we get really.. REALLY lucky with procs.

We might as well be naked with rez sickness in PvP.

Also F**K YOU ALL who wanted us on balcony duty for Blackhand! I hope your class gets nerfed to the ground

About holy power, well meh.. just feels like training wheels for a proper rotation.

[cuafpr]

I dislike holy power. I feel like a Rogue. I build up points and release them. Bah.

Not a very constructive post, I know. I have not been raiding as Ret at all this exp so I can't really judge. I haven't really enjoyed my Paladin as much as I have in previous exp packs.

agreed holy power needs to go.

[Skittles83]

agreed holy power needs to go.

I prefer to see it reworked, but I kinda like it..

My feels around being a Paladin in 13/13hc and 4/12 Mythic are that we are underpowered, and are utterly useless without X & Y trinket and 4 piece with X amount of mastery.

But.. we are a very stable DPS and I notice that on Mythic I'm generally very high on the charts compared to my guildies (BiS HC warriors, hunters getting asskicked)
But you nearly have to play perfect and think so far ahead in the fight regarding your CD's that 1 mistake will plummet your dps.

with the exception of Mannoroth and Archimonde (fuck adds going ST damage) You're changing your talents EVERY fight..
I would really like to see a more warlocky/rogue option where we can have some extra cleave damage (seal is not worth it in most cases)

To keep the paladin feel and Holy power I wish they came up with something like.. Avenging Wrath needs 5HP, if used again while the first one is active you gain double wings.. and make it 15% and 25% dmg increase with a possibility for a high upkeep.
Remove avenging wrath zero cost CD and remove the HP cost of FV..

Let us use HP on Cooldowns only.. for example.. Guardian of kings, Wings, Emp DS and superheal..

[Jokubas]

I'm fine with it. I have some nitpicks, and I guess I could imagine something more fun, but a lot of that has to do with the combat system of World of Warcraft as a whole rather than the class.

I'm personally a fan of Holy Power. With the max of five and plenty of generators, I find it fun. It was absolutely busted when you could only store what your finishers cost and practically nothing generated it, but it's fine now.

By the way, I hate rogue. Not because of Combo Points though, but because of Energy. Energy is the least fun resource in the entire game. It's better than it used to be, but it's just frustrating. The entire thing is designed in such a way that you spend more time being reminded that you're using it up than you do actually enjoying the results of using it.

[Deleted]

I prefer to see it reworked, but I kinda like it..

My feels around being a Paladin in 13/13hc and 4/12 Mythic are that we are underpowered, and are utterly useless without X & Y trinket and 4 piece with X amount of mastery.

But.. we are a very stable DPS and I notice that on Mythic I'm generally very high on the charts compared to my guildies (BiS HC warriors, hunters getting asskicked)
But you nearly have to play perfect and think so far ahead in the fight regarding your CD's that 1 mistake will plummet your dps.

with the exception of Mannoroth and Archimonde (fuck adds going ST damage) You're changing your talents EVERY fight..
I would really like to see a more warlocky/rogue option where we can have some extra cleave damage (seal is not worth it in most cases)

To keep the paladin feel and Holy power I wish they came up with something like.. Avenging Wrath needs 5HP, if used again while the first one is active you gain double wings.. and make it 15% and 25% dmg increase with a possibility for a high upkeep.
Remove avenging wrath zero cost CD and remove the HP cost of FV..

Let us use HP on Cooldowns only.. for example.. Guardian of kings, Wings, Emp DS and superheal..

We are stable? I'm sorry but i cannot agree for one bit. If DC doesen't proc all that often while using FV (and most fights i'd go FV), you're in a whole lot of trouble, that doesen't sound stable.

I don't think your AW change makes any sense sorry, you're preety much moving from Seraphim to Seraphim 2.0.

Holy Power has been reworked 3 times already, from Cata to MoP and from MoP to WoD and although it has improved a bit, it's still crap. Generating it is weird, spending it feels unrewarding. It's a bad system.

Edit: Not to mention that we bring absolutely nothing to a raid that other melee can't bring. Hand spells are preety much useless since Holy and Prot Paladins also use them, i find that i'm mostly sitting on mine for the entire duration of fights due to the other paladins using them. Our DPS is also extremely subpar compared to warriors dk's and rogues, and even ferals have retarded good single target damage. We're good on burst. Whoohoo.

[thorvath]

It's a lot more fun to play with Inq gone. As long as the RNG procs go your way it's GREAT fun. When they don't, however, I wouldn't be surprised if people accused you being afk for part of the fight (especially AoE heavy fights). Also it still remains an issue in PvP that if someone survives wings you are basically out of luck.

The actual damage, well that is always at the whim of Blizz's 'balancing' and gear; especially since, as others have commented, Blizz loves to use set bonuses and trinkets to 'balance' classes. But this is the most fun I've had with the baseline playstyle since Wrath

[Reghame]

oh were good on burst alright, then you see hunters, rogues, mages, ect ect bursting for 100k more than you.

Lets get this right, ret is not really "bursty" anymore, our cooldowns are up so much more now that they are intentionally weaker for it and are spread over a longer duration. sure we can burst for 200k+ sometimes, but hunters can go to 300k consistently on every fight, rogues at 300k arcane mages can even go to almost 400 to 500k if they get good doomnova procs on their prism at the start.

ret just has wings up so often now than you use to and all of the abilities that we use during wings have been watered down so much its sad.

[Green Tree]

Can't wait for Ashbringer!

[Deleted]

I actually like it atm. I took a 4 month break from my horde chars and rerolled on another server and leveled a new ret paladin. But I'm playing casual now and haven't even set foot in HFC normal at this point, I'm just doing some casual pvp and arena.
Holy Power doesn't really bother me, it's at least better than the autoattack wait and seal refresh from classic. :P
I absolutely love DS and it's animation. But it is true, waiting for those DS procs to happen can be really frustrating when you don't get them like 5 times in a row and you can't cleave really well.

[AemosBlackwater]

I dislike holy power. The woltk concept was a bit messy but hey, that concept fixed would have been awesome.

Divine storm was THE SHIT, now its just okaysh when you have both buffs up. Awesome skill turned into something patethic.

Final verdict feels powerful, that is fine. Inquisition removal was good.

I'd like to see something like this: removal of Hammer of the rightous, Crusader strike with no cooldown just as a generator, less reliance on cooldowns.