12+. what you expect from this game? Mature players who have brain can do this event without mistakes after checking youttube videos and tactic explanation. Even if they are never was here. But do you really take ppl without "curve"? Exactly. Because this is games where tons of 12-15 kids or even older but with same brain who want simple boost and dont care about efforts of this group. "I'm playing just for fun. I'm not a nerd. Tactics is for losers. This is just a game.". Especially love this one "this is just a game". You wasted 1000g and 10min of 24ppl because was too lazy, dumb or impatient. This is just a game.....f#ck u dumb retard!!
Also I must admit leader himself can be worst person in a raid. I saw this often. And he judge who must be kicked on fail. And yes some ppl with 10+ kills become overagro. They wasted their time and resources. And dumb idiot who don't even understand how to read logs and what going on around kick them. I can say simple thing - all pugs works like that. Sadly but openraid almost dead and "PG" system haven't reputation tab. With openraid you can take only experienced and patient ppl not only f#ckup but also never leave before time expire. Because otherwise they will get negative comments and reputation. And every next raid leader can read this comments. Also it works vice versa - you never go with leader who have negative or neutral reputation. Sadly but blizzard never implement something like that. Too many ppl will get negative reputation that prevent any further pug raids for them.
There's no need to do nothing. There's also no need to punish those that don't deserve it. The right approach if you were right is to expose to the rest of the raid with an /s what you think is wrong with the leadership, unless you are wrong, in which case it's best to do nothing.
That way everyone wins.
Everyone learns.
Can't really confirm the latter from personal experience - it seems pretty much irrelevant what I am saying the odds of it happening seem always the same. The sad part is those people more than often actually do believe they were being mistreated when you remove them for dealing ~30k over 5 pulls in 710 gear.
children are children.
Hell, I've seen people get to ninja pulling when the raid leader has "vent required" on the notes, spams the raid with vent info, and will outright ask the person to join vent, and get the answer "no", so raid leader kicks him...aaaand it's off to the repair mount.
That pug life! It's the nature of the beast unfortunately, you want consideration but take into account who you're dealing w/. (People from all walks of life).
One could argue that the other players were enabling the raid leader to be an asshat. If that dude is feeling particulary vengeful and wanted other players to leave that raid, doing a ninja pull is probably the best way to do so in his or her mind. Using say or even whispers to other raid members is 9/10 not even close to being effective to satisfy their need for justice. Whether they are right or not is besides the point. If the person getting the kick feels he wasn't treated with respect, it's very likely they'll retaliate. As other people have mentioned, there is no in game rating system for raid members or raid leaders. So there are very few ways for those people to vent their anger. You might find this childish, but it's pretty much human nature. If you can punish someone for mistreating you and you can get away with it without consequences, I can tell you most people will do it.
Bottomline is, treat people with respect, they're less likely to ninjapull. It's by nowhere near a guarantee, but at least you can say that you gave that person the respect any human being deserves.
yeah... like that 715 rogue that was doing 35k on archimonde... the fact he would pull on kick was way too obvious. That's about it. Or a tank who was running like a headless chicken with nether portal on him (through few tries even though he was told what he is supposed to do). People are simply petty.
Previous to my retirement at the end of MoP, this was already common practice in LFR's. Sometimes you'd see it in the Flex raids, but rarely in all honesty. Now I say that as one of the biggest a-hole RL's most people would run into. No seriously, I'm not exaggerating. So it has been transpiring for some time. Perhaps you're just becoming more observant of it?
If people 'ninja pull' and hearth out or were just voted out, you can report them as this constitutes a violation of the 'No Griefing' section of the ToS. But whether anything actually comes of it, your guess is as good as mine, but it doesn't hurt to get them on the record.
I'm actually surprised to see that something hasn't been coded to prevent this sort of thing in LFR specifically. I'm honestly not sure why people's characters aren't instantly 'phased out' or 'teleported out' of the instance the second a Vote-Kick goes thru in all sincerity. I'd wager not enough player concern has been vocalized on this issue to Blizz.
As for a post I read here about a lot of Raid Leaders being garbage, well you're correct, and Blizzard indirectly supports the deteriorating status of Raid Leading by their removal of the forums that helped players be better ones at the end of MoP.... sorry... well for AMERICANS anyways, as these forums on the European forums are still there. Now folks might say well the US versions weren't active enough, but as one who did participate in them I can tell you, oh yes they were very much so.
We always inform them why they are being kicked or let them know we need their DPS to be at 40k or whatever minimum we need to hit. If after say two attempts it's not there we tell them we need to replace them.
That usually avoids a kick.
But if we blindly kick or don't even address the issue prior to removing them, I fully expect the person to ninja pull.
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Essentia@Cho'gall of Inebriated Raiding.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ssentia/simple
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