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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Veredyn View Post
    Two sides to every story. Yes, pulling and causing a wipe is petty, but maybe your raid leader was also being an asshat.
    Was every other player in the raid being an asshat? Because all of them get punished when you cause a wipe because of your issue with a single person.

  2. #82
    Stood in the Fire Visor's Avatar
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    12+. what you expect from this game? Mature players who have brain can do this event without mistakes after checking youttube videos and tactic explanation. Even if they are never was here. But do you really take ppl without "curve"? Exactly. Because this is games where tons of 12-15 kids or even older but with same brain who want simple boost and dont care about efforts of this group. "I'm playing just for fun. I'm not a nerd. Tactics is for losers. This is just a game.". Especially love this one "this is just a game". You wasted 1000g and 10min of 24ppl because was too lazy, dumb or impatient. This is just a game.....f#ck u dumb retard!!

    Also I must admit leader himself can be worst person in a raid. I saw this often. And he judge who must be kicked on fail. And yes some ppl with 10+ kills become overagro. They wasted their time and resources. And dumb idiot who don't even understand how to read logs and what going on around kick them. I can say simple thing - all pugs works like that. Sadly but openraid almost dead and "PG" system haven't reputation tab. With openraid you can take only experienced and patient ppl not only f#ckup but also never leave before time expire. Because otherwise they will get negative comments and reputation. And every next raid leader can read this comments. Also it works vice versa - you never go with leader who have negative or neutral reputation. Sadly but blizzard never implement something like that. Too many ppl will get negative reputation that prevent any further pug raids for them.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    lol kicking your friends?

    friends > raids.
    killing bosses > wiping repeatedly with friends

  4. #84
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeepsneeft View Post
    Being kicked sucks. Ive been kicked a few times for dying to stuff (sometimes my fault, sometimes not) or missing ready checks. It feels bad, especially when you feel it was totally unjustified. But does this give you the right to indirectly kill everyone in the raid. Hell no!

    Everyone that pugs knows that it sucks when you die, have to corpserun and repair gear just because someone couldnt control his emotions. So dont do it to others. Sometimes you will be dropped unjustified, just deal with it and find the next group. People kick easily because you are just a pug, and you should treat the group the same. You are together because you have a common goal. Ninjaing the boss is not helping you or the group achieve that goal, even if they kicked you.

    Even if the leader is an asshole, just suck it up and find a better group.

    There's no need to do nothing. There's also no need to punish those that don't deserve it. The right approach if you were right is to expose to the rest of the raid with an /s what you think is wrong with the leadership, unless you are wrong, in which case it's best to do nothing.

    That way everyone wins.

    Everyone learns.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by dawnrose View Post
    as long as seeking revenge is part of human nature, people will ninja pull when kicked, especially if the way they were kicked was without warning or reason. It is extremely rude to do that. Has nothing to do with being childish. Plenty of adults will seek revenge if they feel they were mistreated. Since there are few other ways to deal with being mistreated in a pug, ninja pulling the boss is a common way to show their rage/feeling of injustice. So can't say this enough: kick people if you have to, but do it with respect. Most of the time, people will return that respect and hearthstone out nicely instead of ninjapulling.
    Can't really confirm the latter from personal experience - it seems pretty much irrelevant what I am saying the odds of it happening seem always the same. The sad part is those people more than often actually do believe they were being mistreated when you remove them for dealing ~30k over 5 pulls in 710 gear.

  6. #86
    children are children.

    Hell, I've seen people get to ninja pulling when the raid leader has "vent required" on the notes, spams the raid with vent info, and will outright ask the person to join vent, and get the answer "no", so raid leader kicks him...aaaand it's off to the repair mount.

  7. #87
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Veredyn View Post
    Two sides to every story. Yes, pulling and causing a wipe is petty, but maybe your raid leader was also being an asshat.
    Asshat or not, there's never a reason to pull the boss and then port out. You are exclusively doing it to disrupt and be an asshole yourself.

    Eye for an eye is not a healthy way to live.

  8. #88
    That pug life! It's the nature of the beast unfortunately, you want consideration but take into account who you're dealing w/. (People from all walks of life).

  9. #89
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagura View Post
    Was every other player in the raid being an asshat? Because all of them get punished when you cause a wipe because of your issue with a single person.
    One could argue that the other players were enabling the raid leader to be an asshat. If that dude is feeling particulary vengeful and wanted other players to leave that raid, doing a ninja pull is probably the best way to do so in his or her mind. Using say or even whispers to other raid members is 9/10 not even close to being effective to satisfy their need for justice. Whether they are right or not is besides the point. If the person getting the kick feels he wasn't treated with respect, it's very likely they'll retaliate. As other people have mentioned, there is no in game rating system for raid members or raid leaders. So there are very few ways for those people to vent their anger. You might find this childish, but it's pretty much human nature. If you can punish someone for mistreating you and you can get away with it without consequences, I can tell you most people will do it.
    Bottomline is, treat people with respect, they're less likely to ninjapull. It's by nowhere near a guarantee, but at least you can say that you gave that person the respect any human being deserves.

  10. #90
    Deleted
    yeah... like that 715 rogue that was doing 35k on archimonde... the fact he would pull on kick was way too obvious. That's about it. Or a tank who was running like a headless chicken with nether portal on him (through few tries even though he was told what he is supposed to do). People are simply petty.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by silverstarzs View Post
    When did this become 'regular and standard and accepted' practice?

    I remember it very occasionally in the past by immature asses.

    But last night I was helping people get their moose, and almost every time the raid leader kicked someone, the kickee pulled, and caused a wipe - repairs, food and time wasted.

    Seems intensely childish and immature. Each was given (multiple) opportunities and direction/instruction by the RL and they still failed. That's a valuable learning experience they were given. Hopefully they will be better next time. Why hurt other people's evening?

    What can Blizzard and the community do to make this unacceptable?
    Previous to my retirement at the end of MoP, this was already common practice in LFR's. Sometimes you'd see it in the Flex raids, but rarely in all honesty. Now I say that as one of the biggest a-hole RL's most people would run into. No seriously, I'm not exaggerating. So it has been transpiring for some time. Perhaps you're just becoming more observant of it?

    If people 'ninja pull' and hearth out or were just voted out, you can report them as this constitutes a violation of the 'No Griefing' section of the ToS. But whether anything actually comes of it, your guess is as good as mine, but it doesn't hurt to get them on the record.

    I'm actually surprised to see that something hasn't been coded to prevent this sort of thing in LFR specifically. I'm honestly not sure why people's characters aren't instantly 'phased out' or 'teleported out' of the instance the second a Vote-Kick goes thru in all sincerity. I'd wager not enough player concern has been vocalized on this issue to Blizz.


    As for a post I read here about a lot of Raid Leaders being garbage, well you're correct, and Blizzard indirectly supports the deteriorating status of Raid Leading by their removal of the forums that helped players be better ones at the end of MoP.... sorry... well for AMERICANS anyways, as these forums on the European forums are still there. Now folks might say well the US versions weren't active enough, but as one who did participate in them I can tell you, oh yes they were very much so.

  12. #92
    Immortal Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    Its simple, you fucked with me. Now its my turn to fuck with you. Don't want people to be assholes when you kick them out of your group? Treat them with some respect.
    We always inform them why they are being kicked or let them know we need their DPS to be at 40k or whatever minimum we need to hit. If after say two attempts it's not there we tell them we need to replace them.

    That usually avoids a kick.

    But if we blindly kick or don't even address the issue prior to removing them, I fully expect the person to ninja pull.
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