Question about M HFC unholy gear

[0verdose]

Hey guys, I just started raiding mythic hfc and just recently got the M WF 2h sword (fel burning blade) from council and the 730 (740 with upgrade) ilvl necklace from tyrant. Both have crit and mastery as secondary stats. I currently am using a regular heroic hellrender and a heroic wf corrupted talon guard pendant from iskar equipped. Should I use the mythic gear even though they don't have any multistrike? I lost about 5-7% multi total but I gain a lot of weap dmg. I was told that I should be using the heroic hellrender until I get the mythic version. I am hesitant because both mythic pieces are way higher in ilvl than my current heroic equips. Please enlighten me on this subject, I just want to hear other opinions on the subject. The sword from council is fully upgraded at 736 ilvl while my hellrender is only 725 but I'm missing a shit ton of multi. Let me know thanks!

[Deleted]

2 words - simcraft. I can't count.

[0verdose]

2 words - simcraft. I can't count.

Thanks for the reply! I'll run some sims once I get it set up but I'm just looking for people's opinions that's all. Really confused on when I should prioritize ilvl and weap dmg vs multistrike

[Saiyendra]

I can tell you without even doing sims that the Council sword is going to beat Hellrender by a lot. For reference, on pure single target Hellrender isn't even BiS, Calamity's Edge is, and that's with only a 5 ilevel difference. Also, the Council sword has slightly better itemization than Calamity's Edge (mastery-focused as opposed to being crit-focused).

I'm also quite sure that the Tyrant necklace is better than the Iskar one because of the 14 ilevel difference, but you should sim that in case you have some really strange gear setup.

[nephzor]

Hellrender is BiS, even the +5ilvl on calamity's edge doesnt make it better. The only time calamity's edge is better is if its wf aka +11 ilvl over nonwf hellrender.

Same for the neck, iskar's neck is BiS, both our best stats are on the item.

Multistrike is the best stat for ST as unholy, hence why the massive amount of multistrike on hellrender makes it BiS.

@op

MWF fel burning blade is better than heroic hellrender.

Tyrant necklace is better than hwf iskar's necklace. Because 14ilvl difference is alot.

[Veiled Shadow]

Hellrender is BiS, even the +5ilvl on calamity's edge doesnt make it better. The only time calamity's edge is better is if its wf aka +11 ilvl over nonwf hellrender.

Same for the neck, iskar's neck is BiS, both our best stats are on the item.

Multistrike is the best stat for ST as unholy, hence why the massive amount of multistrike on hellrender makes it BiS.

@op

MWF fel burning blade is better than heroic hellrender.

Tyrant necklace is better than hwf iskar's necklace. Because 14ilvl difference is alot.

No, Calamity's Edge is better than Hellrender on pure single target even if neither of them have any upgrades. CE has more stats than Hellrender due to the higher ilevel and of course has a better weapon damage.

[nephzor]

No, Calamity's Edge is better than Hellrender on pure single target even if neither of them have any upgrades. CE has more stats than Hellrender due to the higher ilevel and of course has a better weapon damage.

Such simcraft, so much dps... show me the APL you used, to make your sims, because default apl is terrible for BoS.

Also sims dont prove anything.

[Veiled Shadow]

Such simcraft, so much dps... show me the APL you used, to make your sims, because default apl is terrible for BoS.

Also sims dont prove anything.

How exactly do you want to prove that an item is better than another without sims?

(Also, I used the default APL. I don't even see how that's an issue, though, unless you're claiming that the flaws in the default BoS APL somehow cause crit, strength, or weapon damage to be overvalued, in which case you should give evidence. Saying "default APL is terrible for BoS" doesn't mean much).

[nephzor]

It does overvalue certain stats, i cant prove anything as im on my phone right now, except that sims is perfect condition with perfect latency and 100% uptime. Real world testings is a better indication of what's better or not. You can't rely only on sims you have to test it out yourself.

but anyways both are so close to each other that 99% of the dk's wont see a difference when playing with it. Also pure ST there's like 3 fights that are pure single target out of 13, why would you take CE before a warrior or ret pally when hellrender is 110dps behind CE according to sims(smaller difference if you take into account latency, uptime, etc..).

[0verdose]

That's what I was thinking too, I just wasn't sure. My gear setup is the standard unholy "bis" equips all around. Besides the mythic sword and necklace ofc. Oh I'm also running the full upgraded skull of war and a heroic UeH. I chose the skull of war because I don't have a heroic - m vial or a dc. I do have a heroic EDH, heroic pebble and a normal vial but I hear that SoW is better than all three of those.

[Deleted]

Do you still need need to edit the APL to soak more rp? More soaking tends to favour stats over weapon damage and there's a lorra fire to stand in, in HFC.

[0verdose]

So yeah I just sim'd both weaps and the M WF council sword came out on top by about 1k dps and 10k opening dps. I also ran sims on both BoS spec and necroblight spec with BoS playstyle coming out on top by a huge margin. i feel like there is so much rng involved with the BoS playstyle. Depending on what procs pop at the same time I can do crazy dps and so so dps the very next pull. Necroblight surely has more consistent dps when I do training dummy 1 min pulls. Also, my BoS sim said that i had a peak of 290k dps on opener, can somebody explain how to get such high numbers? The most I have gotten was around 225-230k on pull. anybody have tips on how I can get more ticks of BoS? My current BoS runs out a few seconds after ring explodes.

[Khiyone]

So yeah I just sim'd both weaps and the M WF council sword came out on top by about 1k dps and 10k opening dps. I also ran sims on both BoS spec and necroblight spec with BoS playstyle coming out on top by a huge margin. i feel like there is so much rng involved with the BoS playstyle. Depending on what procs pop at the same time I can do crazy dps and so so dps the very next pull. Necroblight surely has more consistent dps when I do training dummy 1 min pulls. Also, my BoS sim said that i had a peak of 290k dps on opener, can somebody explain how to get such high numbers? The most I have gotten was around 225-230k on pull. anybody have tips on how I can get more ticks of BoS? My current BoS runs out a few seconds after ring explodes.

There's no RNG with BoS as Unholy. That's a problem on your end if you're seeing high variance with it.

In any case, are you a blood elf? If you're just doing this on a training dummy with no bloodlust or AMS soaking, an 18-20s BoS as a non-blood elf isn't bad.

[0verdose]

There's no RNG with BoS as Unholy. That's a problem on your end if you're seeing high variance with it.

In any case, are you a blood elf? If you're just doing this on a training dummy with no bloodlust or AMS soaking, an 18-20s BoS as a non-blood elf isn't bad.

Ah yeah definitely problems on my end, sometimes I can hold breathe for a while others I mess up a little. I just recently started practicing my BoS uptime and effeciency. I'm a human so the belf racial isn't possible for me. I do hold BoS for around 18+ sec on the training dummy. In raid I can go over 20 easily. Is this a decent amount of uptime since I'm not a belf?

[Veiled Shadow]

It does overvalue certain stats, i cant prove anything as im on my phone right now, except that sims is perfect condition with perfect latency and 100% uptime. Real world testings is a better indication of what's better or not. You can't rely only on sims you have to test it out yourself.

And which stats would those be, and why? Testing the difference between two weapons in-game is impractical because you'd need an enormous sample size to get results close to the mean. Where do you think "BiS lists" originate in the first place?

why would you take CE before a warrior or ret pally when hellrender is 110dps behind CE according to sims(smaller difference if you take into account latency, uptime, etc..).

Latency and uptime don't affect the differential between the two. And if you have the opportunity to get a CE, you're done with the content anyways.

Do you still need need to edit the APL to soak more rp? More soaking tends to favour stats over weapon damage and there's a lorra fire to stand in, in HFC.

Standard AMS soaking, i.e. once per minute.

[0verdose]

Ran numerous sims while experimenting with different gear builds. Surprisingly the combo of M WF fel burning blade + heroic WF talon guard pendant came up on top opposed to the mythic sword and the mythic necklace from tyrant. Weird huh

[nephzor]

And which stats would those be, and why? Testing the difference between two weapons in-game is impractical because you'd need an enormous sample size to get results close to the mean. Where do you think "BiS lists" originate in the first place?



Latency and uptime don't affect the differential between the two. And if you have the opportunity to get a CE, you're done with the content anyways.

You are right, just reinstalled simcraft and they did make alot of changes to the default apl's since the last time i messed with it. Haste used to be overvalued like to the point of being highest priority unless you would manually change AMS rp soak value in the APL, which would make all the other stats undervalued.

I agree latency doesnt matter when comparing gear sets idk wtf i was thinking.

Like i said CE is indeed better on ST not by much, to be fair 100dps is such an insignificant difference no one will even notice a difference in their dps. I stopped switching to it because im lazy and for 100dps its not even worth opening my bag/gear sets panel to switch to it.