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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    I'm talking about actual social, not just commands. I've had more small talk in LFD than without LFD.
    I honestly don't believe you. Even if that's true, it probably wasn't the case, most of the time. LFD wouldn't bother me that much, if they kept the dungeons hard. Even though there are commands in harder dungeons, I feel that it makes it easier for small talk to naturally happen. Basically an icebreaker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Ah come on Granyala, there's several possible reasons for it. A few that would get us banned here like pointing out a deficite in his mental capacity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oktoberfest View Post
    Man I swear, every time someone uses the term 'Critical Thinking' I want to pop em in the mouth.

  2. #382
    The Patient Chookchan's Avatar
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    The LFG tool in TBC was a good feature, all it needed to be perfect was the ability to select your role (previously it just listed your name, level, and class).
    The LFD tool in WotLK was awesome when it first launched but as many have pointed out time and time again, it wasn't good for the overall health of the game.
    The LFR tool added in Cataclysm gives me mixed feelings. In MoP when I never raided it was great to be able to see the content despite not being part of a raiding guild. I do believe though it should be a little harder, hard enough that you actually need to follow mechanics to kill the boss. The easier and easier LFR got, the worse player culture became. People would turn up and go afk, trash talk, and ignore mechanics.
    The LFR had so much potential to be a great tool for prospective raiders or common raiders to test out a boss and/or raid mechanics, but instead became the hogwash it is today.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...inder/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    The expansion is not The Dark Below.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Also, the expansion is not Corgis Unleashed either.

  3. #383
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    While i dont like LFD and would gladly get rid of it, i think the biggest problem is that the dungeons are just waay to easy. U press lfd and get teleported to dungeon for few minutes of aoe fest that gives ten times more exp than questing and gives loot IF YOU USE THE LFD.
    If dungeons had the difficulty they used then it would be fine because it would encourage communicating and actually knowing something about your class

  4. #384
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bapestar View Post
    I honestly don't believe you. Even if that's true, it probably wasn't the case, most of the time. LFD wouldn't bother me that much, if they kept the dungeons hard. Even though there are commands in harder dungeons, I feel that it makes it easier for small talk to naturally happen. Basically an icebreaker.
    You can choose to believe me or not, I am just speaking from personal experience of having experienced said things happening. The dungeon play without the tool wasn't really some 'amazing' social tool. It was basically channel spam, yell spam, hoping people wouldn't disband on the journey there etc. The only dungeons you KNEW would never disband was Ragefire Chasm and Stockade (because of their location), Wailing Caverns due to some nice pieces of loot and that is about it. Of course, I didn't calculate the three top ones from back in those days due to well, people camping outside in hope of groups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilija View Post
    If you wanted to keep your sanity you avoided pugs before LFD :P And people in LFD are quite nice. Occassional jerks happen as often as before.
    Well, you couldn't really avoid pugs back then. Unless you were blessed with having a guild with enough members to keep going in the same level range dungeons. With LFD, there are jerks. And without LFD, there were jerks too. The time without the tool isn't some social interaction run, people ran because they needed them. A lot went on a server wide blacklist too, or kicked or left multiple times.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  5. #385
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    The LF tools have and will continue to be a great addition to this and any other MMO.

    Mindlessly spamming chat channels for LF X role for Y Dungeon is the epitome of shitty design. As much as people like to use the 'IT MADE YOU SOCIAL" excuse.

    No it really didn't, since most of the times the groups were made, the heroics were done and people moved on. You COULD make friends, but you can also do that in LFD/G if you want to, nothing is stopping you. I actually have a fair few Battle.net "friends" which are people I met in dungeons from other servers that I continue to Dungeon with at times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sähäri View Post
    While i dont like LFD and would gladly get rid of it, i think the biggest problem is that the dungeons are just waay to easy. U press lfd and get teleported to dungeon for few minutes of aoe fest that gives ten times more exp than questing and gives loot IF YOU USE THE LFD.
    If dungeons had the difficulty they used then it would be fine because it would encourage communicating and actually knowing something about your class
    Cataclysm's launch proves you wrong. Dungeons were harder, people whinged and moaned until they were nerfed. It doesn't encourage communication, it encouraged ragequits and toxicity.

  6. #386
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jack Flash View Post
    Cataclysm's launch proves you wrong. Dungeons were harder, people whinged and moaned until they were nerfed. It doesn't encourage communication, it encouraged ragequits and toxicity.
    The community asks for harder dungeons, but forget that dungeons had to be nerfed TWICE in Cataclysm, even though they were still doable. First came the expansion dungeons, and they were nerfed. Then came Hour of Twilight, and they were quickly nerfed.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  7. #387
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    The community asks for harder dungeons, but forget that dungeons had to be nerfed TWICE in Cataclysm, even though they were still doable. First came the expansion dungeons, and they were nerfed. Then came Hour of Twilight, and they were quickly nerfed.
    Exactly, My friends and guildies enjoyed Launch Cata dungeons. But they got nerfed pretty damn quick because of the bads that try them.

    Heroics don't need to be harder, if you want harder shit get a premade group and do Mythics.

  8. #388
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jack Flash View Post
    Exactly, My friends and guildies enjoyed Launch Cata dungeons. But they got nerfed pretty damn quick because of the bads that try them.

    Heroics don't need to be harder, if you want harder shit get a premade group and do Mythics.
    They got nerfed because they were too much for disorganised LFD groups that refused to talk to each other and instead jumped on each other with abuse, calling each other 'bads' and such.

    Really. By now, I think we've all boosted enough 'bad' and undergeared friends and family through most levels of content to accept difficulty was never the problem, but rather patience with strangers.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2016-05-05 at 08:39 AM.

  9. #389
    Scarab Lord Lilija's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaito92 View Post
    so ok let me get this straight

    people ware not social back then "blabllah rambling"


    people in lfd are some other people then from pugs back then.


    ok man, dont see a flaw in this logic, carry on.

    thre shod be a LFS


    looking for solo
    And where did I write that people were different before? They were exactly the same. But with LFD it's easier to not care about those that make you go crazy.

    Pugging was something very rare in Vanilla/TBC compared to how it boomed in WotLK. On my server noone pugged raids before WotLK and the moment you started raiding with a guild you stopped doing dungeons with attunment exceptions which were done with guild as well. The only really social thing in early WoW were guilds (not servers) and those are as needed now as they were back then if you wanted to fully enjoy the game. There isn't much fun stuff to do without a guild or a stable group of friends. Pugging with all those tools is just a nice filler when your guild/friends aren't online.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Well, you couldn't really avoid pugs back then. Unless you were blessed with having a guild with enough members to keep going in the same level range dungeons. With LFD, there are jerks. And without LFD, there were jerks too. The time without the tool isn't some social interaction run, people ran because they needed them. A lot went on a server wide blacklist too, or kicked or left multiple times.
    While leveling sure... and it was horrible experience. I survived thru it cause I was playing with my boyfriend back then and it was easier to deal with it together. But the moment we've joined a raiding guild all the pugging stopped. Also, when I tried to level an alt I could forget to do dungeons - there was so little people after the first wave of levelers on the server that it was impossible to find a group to a given dungeon before you outleveled it. The same went for group quests - the rewards weren't worth the hassle.

    I would assume that my perception of pugging in Vanilla/TBC was so bad because the amount of time you had to spend to form a group wasn't worth the crappy experience. Nowadays, if the group is terribad, you know it won't take long to find another... or even finish. Besides, a decent player can carry most groups so I hardly quit groups as it's rather rare to get one that is banging their head against the wall.

    As for blacklists, it depended on the server. My server didn't have anything like that. People were trolls, ninjas, jerks... noone cared. Those who knew how to play closed themselves within their guilds and rest became irrelevant. Even recruitment eventually truned away from new players - raiding guidls recruited from lower raiding guilds. There was just this one guild who took in everyone and whoever of them knew how to press buttons eventually ended in some other raiding guild. They didn't really progress much with such huge rotation of players (I don't know if they even killed Nefarian). There was also some drama in top guilds about stealing tanks for Naxx and since that moment raiding scene started to go into slow decay - at the end of TBC my guild was the only Ally international guild still doing stuff and when both our tanks quit after Brutallus it was the end of raiding for us. Yup, that server was dead before WotLK so it's easy to see that old model generated issues as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    The community asks for harder dungeons, but forget that dungeons had to be nerfed TWICE in Cataclysm, even though they were still doable. First came the expansion dungeons, and they were nerfed. Then came Hour of Twilight, and they were quickly nerfed.
    This issue comes from the fact that old time players are very experienced and it's obvious that they need the content to become harder to stay interested. At the same time for new players, something that is a mild challenge for people who played this game for years is a wall they cannot get thru. That is what happened in Cataclysm imo. People have been quitting WoW since the early days. Not even half of my friends from Vanilla made it to TBC and even less lasted till the end of TBC. People quit the game for various reasons (in my experience mostly personal, not being able to put enough time into games). What has changed in Cataclysm is that less people joined. I mean for someone completely new in Cata it wasn't as easy to get into raiding as it was for any of us who started in Vanilla (which was a joke difficulty wise compared to PvE content in Cata), That's why variety of difficulty levels is so important for the game to survive. Those who don't like it really seem like they are trying very hard to not like something cause low levels of difficulty have no influence on people who do the hardest.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    They got nerfed because they were too much for disorganised LFD groups that refused to talk to each other and instead jumped on each other with abuse, calling each other 'bads' and such.

    Really. By now, I think we've all boosted enough 'bad' and undergeared friends and family through most levels of content to accept difficulty was never the problem, but rather patience with strangers.
    Very true. I actually had a guild and friends during the early days of cata (even if I was delayed by two weeks due to my CE being very bloody late ¬_¬).

    And the dungeons were hard with LFD people at times but were mostly a nice challenge with friends and guild members because you could rely on eachother to get things done. I do actually miss things like that since these days I just play by myself or with my lass. It's rather lonely all things considered, even with the various tools to find others so we can actually see the content. Maybe I need to start trying to recruit so I'm not one of two people in a guild xD

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    They got nerfed because they were too much for disorganised LFD groups that refused to talk to each other and instead jumped on each other with abuse, calling each other 'bads' and such.

    Really. By now, I think we've all boosted enough 'bad' and undergeared friends and family through most levels of content to accept difficulty was never the problem, but rather patience with strangers.
    I think the severe nerf to healer mana regen helped create that toxicity. Initially with Cataclysm 5-Man content, healers could very easily go OOM and suddenly players were yelling at each other for poor DPS, standing in crap, or any number of mistakes that hadn't mattered as much in Wrath's easier 5 man dungeons.
    Last edited by grandgato; 2016-05-05 at 03:56 PM.

  12. #392
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandgato View Post
    I think the severe nerf to healer mana regen helped create that toxicity. Initially with Cataclysm 5-Man content, healers could very easily go OOM and suddenly players were yelling at each other for poor DPS, standing in crap, or any number of mistakes that hadn't mattered as much in Wrath's easier 5 man dungeons.
    Didn't matter. If you were with friends you'd persevere, CC, interrupt, slow down on pulls, figure out what was causing all the damage that the healer couldn't keep up with, etc. With strangers, that patience and tolerance went out the window.

  13. #393
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaito92 View Post
    i read this argument everywhere, still blizzard removed tier gear from LFR and the pathfinder thing is in legion (which i thin is better then no flying anyway). Blizzard is gonna do what they are thinking is gonna be best. If it would be such much influenced by crying from certain parts of their commity they should be dropping mhytic gear in lfr.


    I think if blizzard would think the removal of this is better for the game they would do it in heartbeat
    teir gear is still in lfr, just a differant teir, and people still complain

    also people still hate pathfinding... i love it

  14. #394
    It's not a coincidence this game got worse, with the addition of these tools. Custom group tool is good though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Ah come on Granyala, there's several possible reasons for it. A few that would get us banned here like pointing out a deficite in his mental capacity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oktoberfest View Post
    Man I swear, every time someone uses the term 'Critical Thinking' I want to pop em in the mouth.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    But this would matter in the face of pristine servers
    If those actually becaome a thing? Then no, people can have their queuing lobby game on regular servers all they want.

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