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  1. #1361
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahourai View Post
    Your point was that tier bonuses better all the time in new tiers - or as you've now started defending, the vast majority of the time.

    You have no evidence to support this. Yes, I just brought up a couple exceptions. That's because it would literally take days of research to present dozens of examples of this not being true. I don't have to do that, though, because you didn't present any reason to believe it IS true. In fact, you thought it was never true, and challenged people to show even one counterexample, probably because you don't have any idea what the fact of the matter is.

    Let's do Death Knight. The 2pt12 bonus for Death Knights was worse than either previous tier 11 bonus for both DPS and tank. The 4pt12 bonus for tank might be more total EHP but is almost undoubtedly worse than the longer icebound fortitude in T11. The T15 bonuses for tank are both absolutely awful compared to either of the previous tier bonuses. The T16 bonuses have been edited from live on WoWhead's database but the 4pc bonus, where DRW activates 4 runes, is arguably worse than the T14 bonuses also.

    I can go on.
    The 2pc T12 counted as an extra disease for blood so you had greater returns from DS, if memory serves.
    And the 4pc, the IBF duration wasn't worse or better, it was different. Since with the T12 you effectively had a far longer defensive cd window to work with.

    Dps wise, T12 was tons better as well, you traded 3% attack power and 5% crit on one ability for 6% damage on your main dps ability and 36 rp/minute.

    So you're wrong. I played DK in that tier and Elementium Deathplate was leaps and bounds ahead of Magma plated.

    It's okay that you don't know what you're talking about though.

  2. #1362
    Quote Originally Posted by seemsdead View Post
    Got nothing against you and what you said is right, but Blizzard's approach is basically you better pony up and pay for the xfer or GL mythic raiding on ya dead servers.
    pay up or be willing to relevel on new servers / dont pick low pop servers. Servers that are high pop now have been high pop for like 2 or 3 expansions now so its mostly whatever. I've reroll leveled 5 different times in my 10 years of wow. It ain't fun, but Mythic raiding is about dedication to completing the hardest content the game has to offer. Being willing to sacrifice convenience is apart of that, personally.

  3. #1363
    Deleted
    It's really all about oppurtunity cost.

    The loss of raiding guilds as a result of 20 man mythic in comparison with the newly found competition.

    Personally, I don't see much of a difference when it comes to interest in both the world first race and competition. Competition is and has always been relative. 10 man guilds competed versus 10 man guilds.

  4. #1364
    Quote Originally Posted by kary View Post
    The 2pc T12 counted as an extra disease for blood so you had greater returns from DS, if memory serves.
    No, of course it didn't.

    And the 4pc, the IBF duration wasn't worse or better, it was different. Since with the T12 you effectively had a far longer defensive cd window to work with.
    I'd take the IBF duration over the parry chance if I were able to pick one, and so would you.

    Dps wise, T12 was tons better as well, you traded 3% attack power and 5% crit on one ability for 6% damage on your main dps ability and 36 rp/minute.
    I specifically referenced the 2p bonus only. The RP gain was almost totally worthless. If you mean "is it worth going to 4 pieces of the next tier" than that's a completely different assertion than the one you initially made.

  5. #1365
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2057776212

    It counted as diseases bruh.

    Just admit that you're wrong and stop, please.

  6. #1366
    Quote Originally Posted by kary View Post
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2057776212

    It counted as diseases bruh.

    Just admit that you're wrong and stop, please.
    Your link is a 500 server error.

    Of course it counts as diseases. It does not count as *extra* diseases, which is what you asserted. You did not gain any extra Death Strike healing or damage from 2pt12.

  7. #1367
    Herald of the Titans Racthoh's Avatar
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    my group even with 20 people didn't always have every class in it. a lot of times we were missing important cds like grips or bops or gateways or bubbles and stuff.

  8. #1368
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilija View Post
    I agree about the start of expantion. However, later on, getting set bonuses from normal when you have mythic gear from previous raid usually isn't really a boost. Doing heroic split is much more benefitial. Most set bonuses aren't that good to surpass significant ilvl downgrade.
    True,

    However in HFC for example it was for sure worth for our mages to get their 4 set.

    And yes if you dont have enough time for split raids and normal obviously dont do normal.

    We however did both normal and heroic 2x for the first 2 weeks. (I'd agree that 3x heroic would have been better but we didnt have the chars for it)

  9. #1369
    Deleted
    We merged with another 10-man guild a couple of months before WoD went live. Started talking to them about half a year before. I do have to say that it changed our raid guild (and the other one) much for the better. I like it being comparable across the board and to be honest, some of the greatest challenges in Mythic just wouldn't have been possible with only 10 people.

    Mythic+ dungeons are a bit concerning for me, mainly because of raid setups: Most mythic raid guilds are set up to have 2 tanks and 4-5 healers. For a 5-man by definition, you need 1 tank, 1 healer. This means that out of the average myth raiding guild that has a roster of around 25-30, only 10 can effectively do the dungeons. The others have to either look for other tanks (that are not enganged in other mythic guilds) or are forced to roll alt tanks / healers.

    This will most probably not produce more tanks overall either, because noone will switch their main to tank when they are not utilized in the raid guild (very rarely need more than 2 tanks in raid encounters).

    Even worse, from what I heard, in the higher difficulties of mythic+, it is rumored to need even 2 tanks.

    Very curious on how this plays out.

  10. #1370
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaito92 View Post
    dont see a problem at all tbh. Mhytic + Dungeons and Raiding are 2 differnt progression paths. Blizzard sad already that you dont need run mhytic + to get in raiding or the reverse
    mythic raiders will want to do them for the gear though.

    Tis interesting because it looks very much like for the first time ever mythic raiders aren't being catered to as far as endgame progression goes. hell, i'd be amazed if non mythic raiding is still done much after these changes.

  11. #1371
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaito92 View Post
    yeah but thats like a nonargument for game design mhytic raiders do also split runs and the world first guys even more crazy things. Its intended as "small player" content. Im glad that blizzard going back to different path of progression, hope crafting is also back to tbc levels of "worth of gear"
    Would be good, I agree.

    The move away from making life easier for super hardcore mythic raiders is a nice one.

  12. #1372
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Tis interesting because it looks very much like for the first time ever mythic raiders aren't being catered to as far as endgame progression goes. hell, i'd be amazed if non mythic raiding is still done much after these changes.
    with the recent changes to ML why even bother with anything below mythic raids when mythic + will give better loot on certain levels then hc raids the only ones left in there will be super causals all good players will be spaming weekly mythic 10-15 + for gear

  13. #1373
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    with the recent changes to ML why even bother with anything below mythic raids when mythic + will give better loot on certain levels then hc raids the only ones left in there will be super causals all good players will be spaming weekly mythic 10-15 + for gear
    It isn't just that.

    I have historically been a raid leader. Its an annoying, boring, thankless task at times.

    If I can get gear almost at the level of mythic raiding without the hassle, why the hell would I start up a heroic raid run? Or even a normal?

    I will if my guildies still want to, but I suspect they'll be too busy having fun!

  14. #1374
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    If I can get gear almost at the level of mythic raiding without the hassle, why the hell would I start up a heroic raid run? Or even a normal?
    Well not for loot, and not because lack of skill for doing those mythic+, but maybe out of boredoom of repeating the same dungeons over and over, and maybe despite having enough gear and skill for mythic raiding you can not gather enough people.
    The problem would be of course what is the point of doing a heroic raid if you are gonna stomp over it, because of overgear and overskill, i guess you could all do it with alts then.

  15. #1375
    Herald of the Titans Aeriedk's Avatar
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    Failure. It feels really small to me after years of enjoying the 25 man raid. I just want more now.

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  16. #1376
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaito92 View Post
    dont see a problem at all tbh. Mhytic + Dungeons and Raiding are 2 differnt progression paths. Blizzard sad already that you dont need run mhytic + to get in raiding or the reverse
    Except if Mythic+ is just "higher iLvl Dungeon loot", then you're locked to boring trinkets and non-set gear, so no, to be optimal in Mythic+, you will have to raid. If only they could make set bonuses not a thing anymore.

    OT: 20-player Mythic ruined so many guilds that it's not even funny. It's a bigger catastrophic failure to the raiding community than WoD was to the game overall. Also this 4 difficulty nonsense is ridiculous. It was bad enough with 3, we really should have kept it at that, or hell let's do LFR + Normal and Normal also has Hardmode like Ulduar.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  17. #1377
    It isn't just that.

    I have historically been a raid leader. Its an annoying, boring, thankless task at times.

    If I can get gear almost at the level of mythic raiding without the hassle, why the hell would I start up a heroic raid run? Or even a normal?

    I will if my guildies still want to, but I suspect they'll be too busy having fun!
    Would be a sight for your guild that you keep complaining about dying three expansion in a row to actually survive and you stop placing the blame on hardcores for being at full fault for killing your guild along with shit talking PuGs. I doubt that would happen though.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2016-09-01 at 05:58 AM.

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