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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    To add to my early'er posts, I love the new loot system.

    Got a few items on my warlock (In my sig) today just because people didn't need them. Ran two full HFC runs and people was passing each other loot they didn't need. Also did some Mythic Dungeons and the same thing
    It is not the system, it is the people. I would guess the same people would have passed on the roll with ML or not. With PL, you will see more immediate evidence of players' generosity.

    Not everyone is an xxxxxx in the game but there are enough of them to make the game leave a terrible experience. Hopefully the new system will decrease the bad behavior since loo complaints will be history in random groups.

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    It is not the system, it is the people. I would guess the same people would have passed on the roll with ML or not. With PL, you will see more immediate evidence of players' generosity.

    Not everyone is an xxxxxx in the game but there are enough of them to make the game leave a terrible experience. Hopefully the new system will decrease the bad behavior since loo complaints will be history in random groups.
    In fairness, I'm sure that there are quite a few out there who absolutely dread this. But they will for obvious reasons be underrepresented on forums like this. Who really don't want players whispering them asking for items, saying (correct or otherwise) that what they have equipped is better. Begging. Offering gold. Sometimes more than one. Sometimes being quite pushy.

    If I were Blizzard I would probably just go with a system like whenever you get a drop (except the first non-unique ring/trinket, perhaps set-pieces, I'm almost making this up as I go along), the chance of getting that drop again should be reduced by say 50%.

    I actually don't mind personal loot if it avoids the mathematical issues with it but I just think that trading, while very good for me personally, might actually be a deterrent for the not very outgoing segments of wow players. I think that they should just have designed personal loot in a way so that it is, in the majority of cases, better than master looter and avoided the trading that leads to stacking and probably a fair amount of unwanted and unpleasant social situations.

    My proposed system would obviously even more than Blizzards remove the incentive to start groups. I should know since I used to lead raids and have since decided that I prefer to just tag along and perhaps give pointers or take over if an absolute need arise. Removing ML will for sure dry up the pool quite a bit. And it will lead to fewer groups and/or more incompetent raid leaders. I think the way to combat this should be to just award an extra bonus roll (or 2?) above the normal cap for leading your first full raid that tier not usable in higher difficulties, but usable for a double bonus roll on a single boss in the same run. Idea being sort of mimicking a reserve. Just because we need raid leaders. That wouldn't be enough for me but I think for enough players it would, in fact I'm not really into retail at all atm but in my best moments I still have a glimmer of hope that I will once again get the urge for it.

    Oh well. We will see. I hope this will not go down exactly the way I dread. With significantly less groups, coupled with higher requirements to join and silly group compositions or guild joining requirements.
    Last edited by Jeniwyn; 2016-07-26 at 12:35 AM.

  3. #483
    I think overall this is a great thing! My only concern is if people start bugging others for their loot. But for PUGS, personal loot is the way to go!

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by iinverse View Post
    You're totally forgot about cross guild/cross realm raid groups.
    Cross realm groups will be locked out of mythic at the start of tier, for normal / hc personal loot is fine.

  5. #485
    Personally i'd have made it a requirement to need 100% of a guild group to use ML,it might have slowed down considerably the spread of cancers like real money paid carries.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    It will be fine. There will still be plenty of pugs.
    and you base it on what ?

    because i for sure wont be making pugs this expansion thats easily 100-200 raid pugs that wont happen over next 2 years of legion or at least untill this change will be reverted. maybe its not much in scale of milions of players but im sure there will be a lot of people like me who will gear alts through mythic + dungeons instead raids now. will i miss tier sets ? probably but ill get eventually them when i get those alts to guilds mythic alt runs

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    If they happen less frequently, it will likely entice more people toward organized raiding.. building guilds and friendships.

    They may even happen more frequently because everyone will feel like they have an equal chance at loot.
    which goes completly 180 degree away from the road they were following for past 3 years with flex and cross realm raids which were supposed to bring firends on different realms together - my guess they tryr to force people agai nto buy realm transfers because they werent geting enough $$$$ from it

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    and you base it on what ?

    because i for sure wont be making pugs this expansion thats easily 100-200 raid pugs that wont happen over next 2 years of legion or at least untill this change will be reverted. maybe its not much in scale of milions of players but im sure there will be a lot of people like me who will gear alts through mythic + dungeons instead raids now. will i miss tier sets ? probably but ill get eventually them when i get those alts to guilds mythic alt runs
    Boohoo, no one cares about the fact that you raid leads won't be able to ninja gear wantonly, or reserve the best gear in the raid, pull subpar dps, and get free loot on the backs of other people. Pugs will be fine. See ya.

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    Hey guess what, I was in a group the other day, Pureblood firehawk dropped, I was able to roll on it even though I already had it, GUESS WHAT I DID, I EFFING PASSED IT M8. The new system is far superior to the previous.
    and for each 1 person who will do like you there will be 9 who will try to extort 1 mln + gold from other pug memebers for the mount now that BAH limit was raised to 10 mln

    Quote Originally Posted by nightmann View Post
    Boohoo, no one cares about the fact that you raid leads won't be able to ninja gear wantonly, or reserve the best gear in the raid, pull subpar dps, and get free loot on the backs of other people. Pugs will be fine. See ya.
    in before month after legion starts and scrubs come to forums whining for blizzard to nerf the instances because they cant pass 1st or 2nd boss now that there wont be raiders in there to carry them will be hillarius See ya then im sure you will be one of those defending the dificulty and asking blizzard not to change it - i bet it
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2016-07-26 at 08:10 AM.

  9. #489
    Good riddance to reserve groups / ninja groups.
    Groups that didn't have tokens and trinkets reserved or just plain ninjad were few and far between, this is much better and if you want to ML just go with guild mates or friends tho ninjalooters tend to not have any.

  10. #490
    Kind of sad that the ML/ninja scumbaggery in pugs became so widespread that Blizzard had to step in and shut it down, but it's a good change.

  11. #491
    Elemental Lord Sierra85's Avatar
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    good riddance to a hideously outdated system, so prime for abuse.
    Hi

  12. #492
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    Greed is a sin. Make the group without reserving anything. Respect others. Their time is as valuable as yours. You are not special and the effort you put does not make you special.
    Entitlement seems like it should be a sin too then
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by alabaster jones View Post
    Kind of sad that the ML/ninja scumbaggery in pugs became so widespread that Blizzard had to step in and shut it down, but it's a good change.
    Yup. Pretty much spot on here. The system itself wasn't a problem but where people took it was. Of course not all of them were the problem but in the end most of them ended up being so. Just lead to almost every group being solely about the leaders satisfaction and everyone else bring welcome to the scraps if they fell off the table. Group continent should be about group satisfaction and not individual plunder. One might argue making a group was once hard having to spam chat, check armories, remember ninjas, and all the other stuff from back in the day. But these days it is pull up a menu and wait. Pick the highest item level and numbers of a specific role. Mostly just waiting. Then if you have a few friends that will tank and heal it is almost an instant fill.

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keniwa View Post
    Apprently alot of you people can't comprehend the option you have MAKE YOUR OWN GROUP. You complain about having TOO many ML groups, then why don't you take your time to make your own with PL. Yes I know, because it takes fucking ages making a group. And that is why we should let the person spending that time putting a group together for YOU aswell, let them decide what kind of loot rules THEY want in their group. Or make your damn own grp.
    A little application of logic: If average pug size is 15-20 players then on average each person participating should make 1 group for every 14-19 they join.

    In short, your suggestion is utterly impractical.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    and for each 1 person who will do like you there will be 9 who will try to extort 1 mln + gold from other pug memebers for the mount now that BAH limit was raised to 10 mln



    in before month after legion starts and scrubs come to forums whining for blizzard to nerf the instances because they cant pass 1st or 2nd boss now that there wont be raiders in there to carry them will be hillarius See ya then I'm sure you will be one of those defending the dificulty and asking blizzard not to change it - i bet it
    I think you highly overestimate the number of "raiders" (lol) who give a crap about this change. Raiders are in guilds, not locking themselves to pugs. The only people that will shy away from it now, are those lazy, selfish bastards who used the system to gear then drop off the "pug scene" anyway. People like that are detrimental to the game, and raiding should be about guilds forming and coming together as a team to defeat teamwork designed encounters.

  16. #496
    What is the big deal? If anything if one has a few in game friends they can run things together and pass items around and not effect anyone else's loot or raiding experience with loot drama. Raids will go quicker and smoother without having to wait on loot rolls. What is the downside again? Oh, right can't flat out ninja or reserve loot. The problem this is addressing.

  17. #497
    I vote to keep this topic until the end of the first tier in legion when mats are really expensive and lets see then which side was right and if we don't get a topic about how wnchanters ate greedy and should be removed from the game.

    But then again people cry so much these days about stuff they have control about, seriously sounds like they are new to the game, "omg reserved group" "omg i must click button to try to join reserved group because i'm too ....(insert whatever you want) to make my own group, omg".
    Last edited by Magnosh; 2016-07-26 at 01:35 PM.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    and you base it on what ?

    because i for sure wont be making pugs this expansion thats easily 100-200 raid pugs that wont happen over next 2 years of legion or at least untill this change will be reverted. maybe its not much in scale of milions of players but im sure there will be a lot of people like me who will gear alts through mythic + dungeons instead raids now. will i miss tier sets ? probably but ill get eventually them when i get those alts to guilds mythic alt runs

    - - - Updated - - -



    which goes completly 180 degree away from the road they were following for past 3 years with flex and cross realm raids which were supposed to bring firends on different realms together - my guess they tryr to force people agai nto buy realm transfers because they werent geting enough $$$$ from it

    Because a lot of healthy and non greedy/toxic players will make groups instead.

  19. #499
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    and for each 1 person who will do like you there will be 9 who will try to extort 1 mln + gold from other pug memebers for the mount now that BAH limit was raised to 10 mln



    in before month after legion starts and scrubs come to forums whining for blizzard to nerf the instances because they cant pass 1st or 2nd boss now that there wont be raiders in there to carry them will be hillarius See ya then im sure you will be one of those defending the dificulty and asking blizzard not to change it - i bet it
    Hopefully people will be nice if they already have the mount - I see no reason to have an item in your bag that you've already learned, but I fully understand what you're saying though - some people just want to watch the world burn lol

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