Mythic+ and Retribution

[Fatali]

Are we all excited for the buffs rolling in for next week's Mythic+ runs?
I sure am.

After struggling to keep up with a Shadow Priest and a Fire Mage in level six Mythic+ dungeons, I might finally have a chance to actually catch up.

On that note, which talents are you all using for Mythic+? Are there any absolute must-haves? Besides the obvious Crusade.

I tried running Zeal instead of Fires of Justice for a while, but went back to Fires for the faster Holy Power regeneration.
I had the same dilemma with the first and fourth tier talents. Better AoE buttons vs. better Divine Storm damage/Faster Holy Power regen for Divine Storm. I went all in with talents for Divine Storm and Holy Power related things.

Also, what about Justicar's Vengeance, anyone using that? I personally picked it up for the occasional oh-snap situation, but I'm not entirely sure it's worth it. Though nothing seems to be in that tier.

Information about the best trinket choices for Mythic+ trash mobs are also welcome. I'm testing Ravaged Seed Pod at the moment for the Teeming modified dungeons, but I'm not entirely sold on that either.

[Deleted]

I am usually going for:
Final Verdict, The Fires of Justice, Fist of Justice, Divine Hammer, Justicar's Vengeance, Divine Intervention, Crusade.

Divine Hammer for the extra trash cleave (it does surprisingly well), Justicar's Vengeance to quickly stack up on Crusade and mitigate the initially slower rotation from Hammer on single target burst.
I also went for Divine Tempest as my second major artifact trait, simply to try and shore up my lackluster cleave as much as possible for 5mans.

Honestly, the EN trinkets seem lackluster so far. A good TF-rolled or high Mythic+ dungeon trinket like Chaos Talisman, Faulty Countermeasure or Spiked Counterweight would probably end up being better.

[Fatali]

JV is crap for DPS, you don't use it to increase the damage.
But when the entire party is low, and you stun a trash mob and then you use Justicar's Vengeance and it crits.. God, do I love you as a healer.
You instantly go back to full HP and we all know that dead players don't do DPS.

Yeah, healing is what I'm using it for, it's especially nice in Black Rook.
Something bad happens, I'm popping Wake of Ashes (it stuns just about every mob there), Shield of Vengeance, JV, maybe a health pot, and hoping for the best.

But I'm also thinking, since I'm already nerfing my damage by doing it, maybe I should go the extra mile and spec Word of Glory for that reliable 200k+ instant heal on every party member with two charges ready to go off the bat?

[xxcloud417xx]

I have been fine running my usual build of FV > TFOJ > VB > EfaE > Crusade

I have 28% crit though right now so Virtue's Blade is simming a lot higher than Blade of Wrath now, it crits really hard (actually about as much damage as your Templar's Verdict does when it does crit)

As far as the defensives, I took cavalier, cuz 2 horses is better than DI in pretty much any situation. You can activate your own bubble, just need to learn to anticipate shit. I also took Eye for an Eye, simply because it's another damage reduction ability on a fairly low CD. 35% less damage every minute. Pair that up with the fact that you have Shield of Vengeance every 1.5mins, you can cycle CDs pretty much like a damn tank as ret. Then you also got LoH for a real oh shit moment in a group, or you can BoP someone who's about to get fucked (I BoPed the healer last night in Mythic+ DHT when he had like 2HP it was pretty damn useful). You also have cleanse (which helped the tank remove that poison debuff from the bat trash mobs in DHT, right before Xavius)

Another moment yesterday where this stuff came through was on Mythic+ Cordana. Healer and rogue died suddenly, and we got the boss from roughly 50% to dead with the really well-timed use of LoH for the tank, BoP on the Mage, Bubble on myself coupled with some Flash of Light heals to get my HP back to at least 30% and thank God for Bloodlust lol

Overall, the thing with ret, without even thinking about those incoming buffs, is that we are possibly the best class for straight up utility and tankiness on a melee DPS. We really shine when shit hits the fan and ppl are about to get wrecked.

[Deleted]

Dunno what you guys are doing but going for single target builds is pretty much the dumbest way to approach mythic +. Go AoE full force and you can actually contribute to your runs. It's the trash that makes you lose time not the bosses. Group set up is Blood, BM, Fire, Ret, Resto Druid. Pretty much always 600k-1,4M DPS on trash while still being able to hold 300k on bosses. Get trinkets for aoe pulls and boss pulls and you should be fine.

[Bishbashbosh]

Dunno what you guys are doing but going for single target builds is pretty much the dumbest way to approach mythic +. Go AoE full force and you can actually contribute to your runs. It's the trash that makes you lose time not the bosses. Group set up is Blood, BM, Fire, Ret, Resto Druid. Pretty much always 600k-1,4M DPS on trash while still being able to hold 300k on bosses. Get trinkets for aoe pulls and boss pulls and you should be fine.

Pretty much this. With my groups (Doing several Mythic 5's), I've gone for the extreme AOE cheese. I run JV, Emp Judgement, DH, DI, Holy Wrath. For any boss fight with adds, I will almost always tell my healer to not heal me, allow DI to proc and then deal around 12m damage from Holy Wrath to 4 Targets.

[Saintlel]

I have been fine running my usual build of FV > TFOJ > VB > EfaE > Crusade

I have 28% crit though right now so Virtue's Blade is simming a lot higher than Blade of Wrath now, it crits really hard (actually about as much damage as your Templar's Verdict does when it does crit)

As far as the defensives, I took cavalier, cuz 2 horses is better than DI in pretty much any situation. You can activate your own bubble, just need to learn to anticipate shit. I also took Eye for an Eye, simply because it's another damage reduction ability on a fairly low CD. 35% less damage every minute. Pair that up with the fact that you have Shield of Vengeance every 1.5mins, you can cycle CDs pretty much like a damn tank as ret. Then you also got LoH for a real oh shit moment in a group, or you can BoP someone who's about to get fucked (I BoPed the healer last night in Mythic+ DHT when he had like 2HP it was pretty damn useful). You also have cleanse (which helped the tank remove that poison debuff from the bat trash mobs in DHT, right before Xavius)

Another moment yesterday where this stuff came through was on Mythic+ Cordana. Healer and rogue died suddenly, and we got the boss from roughly 50% to dead with the really well-timed use of LoH for the tank, BoP on the Mage, Bubble on myself coupled with some Flash of Light heals to get my HP back to at least 30% and thank God for Bloodlust lol

Overall, the thing with ret, without even thinking about those incoming buffs, is that we are possibly the best class for straight up utility and tankiness on a melee DPS. We really shine when shit hits the fan and ppl are about to get wrecked.

Uhh, I have 28% crit, 25% haste and VB is a significant DPS loss, what does your other stats look like? I actually want to use VB over BoW

[Deleted]

Yeah, healing is what I'm using it for, it's especially nice in Black Rook.
Something bad happens, I'm popping Wake of Ashes (it stuns just about every mob there), Shield of Vengeance, JV, maybe a health pot, and hoping for the best.

But I'm also thinking, since I'm already nerfing my damage by doing it, maybe I should go the extra mile and spec Word of Glory for that reliable 200k+ instant heal on every party member with two charges ready to go off the bat?

dont know if thats u being sarcastic, but there is no room for failure @+10, u ll need every dps. recruit better heal+/improve movement.


4 spec:
even t7 choice has small impact on HoPo prioritisation: HoPo asap (as if u were the reincarnation of Holy Avenger)! but Crusade outperforms DP, not only due itz reliablitity (=computability), but massive synergy with encounters.

overall mythic feels like being specifically designed 4 Holy Crusader!

btw- FoJ? is not only dps-loss, but also a cc-loss esp. 4 chainpulls.

[xxcloud417xx]

Uhh, I have 28% crit, 25% haste and VB is a significant DPS loss, what does your other stats look like? I actually want to use VB over BoW

30% Haste, 28% Crit, 15% Mastery 0 Versa. 848 item level currently.

[Narruin]

I'm playing with FV, Zeal, Blinding Light (need another cast to proc Sephuz legendary every 30 sconds), DH, WoG, Divine, Crusade.
Just a little balance between ST and AoE. WoG saved a lot of moments.
Wasn't in any Mythic higher than +7. Build feels really good.

[Maylander]

Once you start getting the "teeming" (increases amount of trash) keystones at 4+, AoE is the only viable option. There's way too much trash to worry about single target DPS. Bosses drop quickly regardless. I'd say both DP (free DS) and HW are stronger than Crusade in such circumstances, and Greater Judgement is pretty much mandatory. In fact, at higher Mythic+ ranks, I'd say even Consecration is probably going to be needed, simply because AoE is so, so strong at that point.

[Deleted]

Personally i feel the lack of any group wide AOE (outside of ashes on undead) really hurts Ret at higher mythic+ levels. Maybe with the buffs and filling out the rest of our artifacts our AOE will be competitive.

- - - Updated - - -

meant AOE stun

[Deleted]

would go for greater judgement and DH and crusade. You will have crusade available relatively often once packs take more then a couple of seconds to burn down round about every second group. pretty good facemelting capabilities for priority adds included. wouldn´t recommend FCM but horn + chaos nexus (if done right you can keep it up 90% of the time)

For group control I have wake blinding light and stomp (dead useful even if you just stomp for cast interruption)

[Fatali]

I have to say, it's rather interesting to see how others swear by Crusade, and others go for DP or even HW.

Personally I can't decide between the three.

[Deleted]

it all depends on the gear available and your group composition. if you wan´t you can go pure single target if you have some retarded op AOE whores with you. In that case it matters more to do burst down the bosses or priority adds who can easily fuck up the group.

[Deleted]

I'm rather curious about this. I saw Rets getting buffed, so I assumed they were one of the weaker dps specs.

However last night I did a mythic 2 Black Rook with a guild run, with me being a BM Hunter(850 iLevel) which is supposedly pretty good at mythics, ret pally from my guild(850+ iLevel) and Outlaw Rogue(850+ iLevel).

That Ret was a monster, both on trash and on bosses. Both the paladin and the rogue were ahead of me on trash of less than 5 mobs while I was pulling away with bigger packs. The Ret was easily pushing 600-800k dps on trash.

He beat both me and the Outlaw rogue on all bosses, bursting 600k dps. It was just very cool to do a speed run with such competitive dps.

So I was just curious where the dps problems with Ret are? Maybe on raids with longer fights they can't sustain good dps? Can anyone explain?

[Deleted]

I'm rather curious about this. I saw Rets getting buffed, so I assumed they were one of the weaker dps specs.

However last night I did a mythic 2 Black Rook with a guild run, with me being a BM Hunter(850 iLevel) which is supposedly pretty good at mythics, ret pally from my guild(850+ iLevel) and Outlaw Rogue(850+ iLevel).

That Ret was a monster, both on trash and on bosses. Both the paladin and the rogue were ahead of me on trash of less than 5 mobs while I was pulling away with bigger packs. The Ret was easily pushing 600-800k dps on trash.

He beat both me and the Outlaw rogue on all bosses, bursting 600k dps. It was just very cool to do a speed run with such competitive dps.

So I was just curious where the dps problems with Ret are? Maybe on raids with longer fights they can't sustain good dps? Can anyone explain?

Mythic 2 tho. And even then ...

Problem here is rogues and hunters can pull over 1000k dps on trash fights, 600k is rather low.

[Deleted]

I'm rather curious about this. I saw Rets getting buffed, so I assumed they were one of the weaker dps specs.

However last night I did a mythic 2 Black Rook with a guild run, with me being a BM Hunter(850 iLevel) which is supposedly pretty good at mythics, ret pally from my guild(850+ iLevel) and Outlaw Rogue(850+ iLevel).

That Ret was a monster, both on trash and on bosses. Both the paladin and the rogue were ahead of me on trash of less than 5 mobs while I was pulling away with bigger packs. The Ret was easily pushing 600-800k dps on trash.

He beat both me and the Outlaw rogue on all bosses, bursting 600k dps. It was just very cool to do a speed run with such competitive dps.

So I was just curious where the dps problems with Ret are? Maybe on raids with longer fights they can't sustain good dps? Can anyone explain?

ret and fight length over 3 minutes are mortal enemies. neither can live while the other shines.
usually the fight length in mythic and lower mythic+ is around 1 minute and 1:30. Which means for ret a really high up time of crusade and trinket if he got a good on use one. Same with trash greater judgement + ds spam = ok dps; with proper timed crusades trash DPS is nice as long as the tank pulls in the right intervals.