1. #1

    Spec Advice for Sin Rogue in Raids?

    So I'm just looking into making the switch from the bleed build (Using hemo and exsang) to the poison based build (Using agonizing and elaborate planning). The play style is a bit of a change and I know my DPS will suffer initially, but this seems like the stronger build of the two, especially for scaling later on.
    My question is, are there any specific fights bleed will outperform poison by a wide margin? It seems poison has a harder time switching targets compared to bleed but I'm not extremely familiar with the spec yet and haven't brought it into a raid environment, so I was hoping for some input from more experienced people.
    The most obvious one that comes to mind is Il'gynoth. How does poison and bleed fare against one another?

  2. #2
    On a few tries yesterday, was consistently holding 330k'ish DPS on Heroic Dragons of Nightmare ( requires quite a bit of switching target ) thanks to Bag of Tricks trait ( I do use poison build )

    The thing is, I got ~110% mastery

    Relying on RNG is not my type, I do know bleed ( Exs+Hemo ) would perform a lil' better ( even Exs+EP ), but I just can't afford the 500g tomes on my server to be swapping around right now, so I just stick to poison and do what I can ( even 1 CP Envenom or 1 Poisoned Knife to get the first stack up )

    Guild group has not reached Il'gynoth yet, can't say for sure but I still think both bleed and poison builds are not optimal for this kind of fight

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by skindown View Post
    On a few tries yesterday, was consistently holding 330k'ish DPS on Heroic Dragons of Nightmare ( requires quite a bit of switching target ) thanks to Bag of Tricks trait ( I do use poison build )

    The thing is, I got ~110% mastery

    Relying on RNG is not my type, I do know bleed ( Exs+Hemo ) would perform a lil' better ( even Exs+EP ), but I just can't afford the 500g tomes on my server to be swapping around right now, so I just stick to poison and do what I can ( even 1 CP Envenom or 1 Poisoned Knife to get the first stack up )

    Guild group has not reached Il'gynoth yet, can't say for sure but I still think both bleed and poison builds are not optimal for this kind of fight
    Thanks!
    Out of curiosity for your rotation at how many CP's do you Envenom if Elaborate Planning is down?

    But it's probably not, something tells me Outlaw would perform better on it, but I really don't like the play style. We're not *super* cutting edge or anything, we've downed 6/7 Heroic atm, but I still like to do the best I can with the spec I enjoy. I might eventually begin switching specs to the ideal from boss to boss, but right now I enjoy sin the most and it's not really needed for us yet.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDragoon212 View Post
    Thanks!
    Out of curiosity for your rotation at how many CP's do you Envenom if Elaborate Planning is down?

    But it's probably not, something tells me Outlaw would perform better on it, but I really don't like the play style. We're not *super* cutting edge or anything, we've downed 6/7 Heroic atm, but I still like to do the best I can with the spec I enjoy. I might eventually begin switching specs to the ideal from boss to boss, but right now I enjoy sin the most and it's not really needed for us yet.
    I don't use EP, so I might not be the best to answer this, I really don't like the concept of having to dump 2~3 CP on Envenom just to keep its uptime, but I don't deny it is somewhat superior to cleave/AoE scenarios than Hemo

    I'm running Hemo/AP, will try MP/AP later when we will do more tries ( can't seem to down them again, same people that killed last week can't kill it now Ç_Ç ), I just do enjoy the Hemo overall, bleeds still count for 40~45% of my damage with it, I might be just lazy I guess :X

    This is the log of the best try we did yesterday https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...8&type=summary ( I'm Omgbak by the way )

  5. #5
    I play Poison Build myself and after doing the raid for the first time last week i felt like Bleeds would perform better on some bosses. The Boss that struck me the most as a shitty place to use agonizing was Cenarius. The constant switching targets wasnt doing it for me, i'd have to refresh 5 stacks of agonizing in every mob to be at my full potential and the mobs died too quickly. Besides that your stacks will most likely drop from cenarius unless you want to make the run to throw a poison knife and leave the adds.

    Agonizing is definetely doable in every boss of the raids, i did it myself and pulled decent numbers, but some bosses like Cenarius i wish i was using exsang and EP instead.


    Also the bosses that dont require you to switch targets, or just switch once or twice, Agonizing will almost always pull ahead. The long fights during the raid i noticed that i had a bit of ramp up and i'd be behind my guild mate which is running bleeds, but by the end i always pulled ahead due to Agonizing being so good in long fights.

  6. #6
    I was running Ex + Hemo with 32% crit and 20% versatility thinking hemo was the way to go. After a bit more reading and a lot of testing i switched to EP and never looked back. It was minimum a 20% DPS increase taking me from around 200k to 240k single target at 845 ilvl. It also simplifies the rotation/priority on an already clunky spec with one less thing to manage. It makes switching targets easier with one less debuff to apply and the energy can be saved for muts/envenom. It also makes burst phases easier I find.

    Maybe if i had 40% crit hemo would be a better option but everything has haste/mastery on it so I'm sticking with EP. EP and deeper strat.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Moneyshott View Post
    I was running Ex + Hemo with 32% crit and 20% versatility thinking hemo was the way to go. After a bit more reading and a lot of testing i switched to EP and never looked back. It was minimum a 20% DPS increase taking me from around 200k to 240k single target at 845 ilvl. It also simplifies the rotation/priority on an already clunky spec with one less thing to manage. It makes switching targets easier with one less debuff to apply and the energy can be saved for muts/envenom. It also makes burst phases easier I find.

    Maybe if i had 40% crit hemo would be a better option but everything has haste/mastery on it so I'm sticking with EP. EP and deeper strat.
    Versatility isn't bad but at numbers like that Crit is a better stat regardless of what spec you are running.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizvok View Post
    Versatility isn't bad but at numbers like that Crit is a better stat regardless of what spec you are running.
    I don't doubt it but someone needs to tell Blizz. Everything that drops has huge amounts of haste on it so upgrading is a real pain. Ive naturally come down now to 16% vers with mastery increasing from 60 to 80% just from big ilvl upgrades. Trying to upgrade gear is miserable. I've got an ilvl 870 heroic warforged trinket sitting in my bag because its 1100 haste and far inferior to my 1090 agil 800 crit 835 trinkets that you get from WQs

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Moneyshott View Post
    I don't doubt it but someone needs to tell Blizz. Everything that drops has huge amounts of haste on it so upgrading is a real pain. Ive naturally come down now to 16% vers with mastery increasing from 60 to 80% just from big ilvl upgrades. Trying to upgrade gear is miserable. I've got an ilvl 870 heroic warforged trinket sitting in my bag because its 1100 haste and far inferior to my 1090 agil 800 crit 835 trinkets that you get from WQs
    Trinket wise I think some of the clear winners are proc based. If you can afford Six-feather fan I would highly recommend picking that up and I've been liking Tirathon's Betrayal as well. Really though if you are gold wealthy you could pick up Six-feather and Dark Moon: Dominion and be pretty set trinket wise for a while.

    There is plenty of stuff without haste. And given that we have crit, vers, and mastery all as worthwhile is pretty nice.

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