Mythic + Bias towards warlocks

[Xeranath]

Haven't pugged a mythic yet and I'm not about to. I'm lucky I have my guild for that. I do feel for those that are prejudiced against. On one of my first random heroics, the Dh tank, for some reason, insisted on demanding Skada reports for each boss. On the first boss, he exclaimed that he expect my dps to be higher, which was second to an enh shammy. The rest of the team leapt to my defence, thankfully, which was nice.

It's a sad case that we are a ramp class and as such the format of quick fights I a dungeon setting really does not suit us. I do find destro aoe specked to be more than capable of handling mythic plus. We may not shine, we not not be the bees knees, but played well we're definitely not a liability. Haven't levelled my Aff yet, so I've no idea of their potential.

[Deleted]

Yep. People kinda did it to themselves talking about how bad Warlocks are all day long. Warlocks have always been great in Mythic+ groups, but they didn't want to figure that out early on. .

Rubbish. Othe rplayers can read the sims and see warlock performances for themselves

The real truth is that everyone has realised that it takes a highly skilled player to squeeze out a warlock's maximum, mediocre at best damage

A PUG group has no idea of a player's skill, so they use a simple filter - class. It's just an easy and safer option to take a mage ror hunter as a ranged, because you are virtually guaranteed to get a decent performance. Mages and hunters are inherently stronger and easier to play classes.

And in the hands of a skilled player, a mage or hunter willalways beat a warlock of equal skill.

Moreover, all warlock specs are horribly cramped by their talent trees. No other class has to semi-cripple it's single target damage to do decent aoe, or semi-cripple it;s aoe to do decent single target

A mage loses 1-2% of their single target by taking Living Bomb. An affliction warlock has to lose 10%+ of his single target to take Sow the Seeds. But without Sow the Seeds, affliction's aoe is garbage.

Affliction is good at one thing only, trash aoe. Fore mages can be almost as good, but deliver good single target as well.

So basically, classe slike hunters, mages have excellent all-rounder capabilities and on average deliver more damage. It's a simple and logical choice, a hunte ror mage takes preference over a warlock every single time.

Our other guild lock rerolled fire mage, and just doesn't get decline after decline.

The game is drowning in dps, guarantee every pug group will have alist of applicants and there willalway sbe mages and hunters, not least because many more people play them. It's a no-brainer choice to take them over a lock.

[Jondar]

I do agree, however on my Hunter i get instant invites to ANY group i have requested to join - only 845 ilvl. Bear in mind i carry them on dps most runs, people do sub consciously (or consciously) select the "god tier" classes. I notice hunters and DH in every group i go in, never ever see a warlock.

Yep; there are a few classes that will have a muchhh easier time getting into groups. But that's nothing new to the game.. just something that's newer to Warlocks.

- - - Updated - - -

Rubbish. Othe rplayers can read the sims and see warlock performances for themselves

The real truth is that everyone has realised that it takes a highly skilled player to squeeze out a warlock's maximum, mediocre at best damage

A PUG group has no idea of a player's skill, so they use a simple filter - class. It's just an easy and safer option to take a mage ror hunter as a ranged, because you are virtually guaranteed to get a decent performance. Mages and hunters are inherently stronger and easier to play classes.

And in the hands of a skilled player, a mage or hunter willalways beat a warlock of equal skill.

Moreover, all warlock specs are horribly cramped by their talent trees. No other class has to semi-cripple it's single target damage to do decent aoe, or semi-cripple it;s aoe to do decent single target

A mage loses 1-2% of their single target by taking Living Bomb. An affliction warlock has to lose 10%+ of his single target to take Sow the Seeds. But without Sow the Seeds, affliction's aoe is garbage.

Affliction is good at one thing only, trash aoe. Fore mages can be almost as good, but deliver good single target as well.

So basically, classe slike hunters, mages have excellent all-rounder capabilities and on average deliver more damage. It's a simple and logical choice, a hunte ror mage takes preference over a warlock every single time.

Our other guild lock rerolled fire mage, and just doesn't get decline after decline.

The game is drowning in dps, guarantee every pug group will have alist of applicants and there willalway sbe mages and hunters, not least because many more people play them. It's a no-brainer choice to take them over a lock.

My lord, by reading your posts I'd think every pug ever was composed of Fire Mages and Hunters. I wonder why that isn't the case. Meanwhile, I finished a +10 Tyrannical last night and put up great numbers throughout.. funny, though.. because I'm not a Fire Mage or a Hunter. ST was fine, trash was fine.. must be a bug.

[Deleted]

Unfortunately, those classes are the ones who perform precisely the same role as warlocks: ranged dps. Hunters and mages mainly, but other ranged dps also. They are stronger, more versatile, easier to play - all of which virtually guarantee that they'll be given preference over a warlock in a competition for a group place. And since many, man ymore people play them, it is guarateed that they'll be in the list of applicants.

It is really a no-brainer choice, if a PUG leader had a list of ranged dps,they are never going to take a warlock if they got a mage or hunter (and others) in thei rlist of applicants.

In fact it's such a no-brainer that groups will decline a lock on principle, even if the lock has significantly better gear. PUG groups have no idea about player skill, so they apply a first filter of class, and almost invariably take the "safe" choice.

- - - Updated - - -

My lord, by reading your posts I'd think every pug ever was composed of Fire Mages and Hunters. I wonder why that isn't the case. Meanwhile, I finished a +10 Tyrannical last night and put up great numbers throughout.. funny, though.. because I'm not a Fire Mage or a Hunter. ST was fine, trash was fine.. must be a bug.

PUG group? How did your ilevel compare to the others? Did they look at your achievements liek Mythic raid kills? Mythic +10 is a pretty rarified level. What other ranged dps were you competing against? What were your numbers compared to theirs? Do you think you could have done it at all as affliction?

But for average level play, it;s just a no-brainer to take the "safe" choice. and yes, yo umay guarantee that most PUG groups have mages and hunters in their applicant lists - way more people play them than warlocks.

[Jondar]

Unfortunately, those classes are the ones who perform precisely the same role as warlocks: ranged dps. Hunters and mages mainly, but other ranged dps also. They are stronger, more versatile, easier to play - all of which virtually guarantee that they'll be given preference over a warlock in a competition for a group place. And since many, man ymore people play them, it is guarateed that they'll be in the list of applicants.

It is really a no-brainer choice, if a PUG leader had a list of ranged dps,they are never going to take a warlock if they got a mage or hunter (and others) in thei rlist of applicants.

In fact it's such a no-brainer that groups will decline a lock on principle, even if the lock has significantly better gear. PUG groups have no idea about player skill, so they apply a first filter of class, and almost invariably take the "safe" choice.

I'm genuinely curious - do you actually play this game? Because nothing that you're saying is an accurate portrayal of what pugging is like in Mythic+. Groups are not just M/M/H/tank/heal or H/M/M/tank/heal. And rarely do you run into Mages and Hunters that put out the numbers you seem to think they are all capable of. There are a lot of bad players out there, just like there always has been no matter how OP some classes are. People that pug and start their own groups know this. It's not as though everyone is new to pugging. The same rules have always applied. Some classes being better than others is not a new thing when it comes to WoW, yet never have pugs always been made up of the same 2 classes. Like.. ever. People understand not everyone is of equal skill, which is why iLvl requirements and achievements are much more determining factors as to what gets you into a group than your class. Not that its a good representation of skill, but it's more telling than simply playing a class.

[clevin]

Yep. People kinda did it to themselves talking about how bad Warlocks are all day long. .

Because of course, when we aren't doing well the right thing to do is not talk about it and NEVER bring up that we need buffs. because if we don't talk about it people won't look at their fucking meters and notice we're subpar, RIGHT?

[Jondar]

Because of course, when we aren't doing well the right thing to do is not talk about it and NEVER bring up that we need buffs. because if we don't talk about it people won't look at their fucking meters and notice we're subpar, RIGHT?

They might notice subpar players are subpar. But if you can't do a sufficient amount of damage in Mythic+ dungeons - especially the pug-worthy difficulties - it isn't the game's fault. Yet, people think it is so they turn to places like this and look for comradery from people like you to pat eachother on the back and blame balance when that isn't the issue for most people.

But I don't need to get into this with the same people again.

Warlocks are plenty capable of putting up very good numbers in Mythic+. Point. Blank. Period. Don't believe me? Feel free to run a group with me. Otherwise, shush.

Infracted - Woz

[clevin]

They might notice subpar players are subpar. But if you can't do a sufficient amount of damage in Mythic+ dungeons - especially the pug-worthy difficulties - it isn't the game's fault. Yet, people think it is so they turn to places like this and look for comradery from people like you to pat eachother on the back and blame balance when that isn't the issue for most people.

But I don't need to get into this with the same people again.

Warlocks are plenty capable of putting up very good numbers in Mythic+. Point. Blank. Period. Don't believe me? Feel free to run a group with me. Otherwise, shush.

Shsush>? Fuck you. You dont get to tell people to shush asshole.

You seem to think because you're good there's no issue. Typical asshole. You != the class.

The fact is that an equally well played and geared fire mage will kick your ass up one side of those mythics and down the other. Yeah, you beat mage who aren't as good. whoopee.

Infracted - Woz

[ThePhantombox]

Shsush>? Fuck you. You dont get to tell people to shush asshole.

You seem to think because you're good there's no issue. Typical asshole. You != the class.

Lol, newsflash bro, you != the class either.

[clevin]

Lol, newsflash bro, you != the class either.

I know. If read my other posts, I've been talking about the class in general. Jondar keeps talking about himself as if his experiences are the only valid ones. You might want to butt out of conversations that you don't understand.

[ThePhantombox]

I know. If read my other posts, I've been talking about the class in general. Jondar keeps talking about himself as if his experiences are the only valid ones. You might want to butt out of conversations that you don't understand.

Or you could have actually read what he was saying, which is that none of you are robots and are all separated by individual skill, skill which can set you pretty far apart from your peers.

Of course that requires effort.

Also it's a forum, not a chat room, you have time to spell check your posts.

[Jondar]

Shsush>? Fuck you. You dont get to tell people to shush asshole.

You seem to think because you're good there's no issue. Typical asshole. You != the class.

The fact is that an equally well played and geared fire mage will kick your ass up one side of those mythics and down the other. Yeah, you beat mage who aren't as good. whoopee.

I'm not sure if you understand this or not, but the point of a Mythic+ dungeon is to clear the dungeon, not treat it like a "ME VS YOU" scenario against your group. So I'll repeat; if you can't do a sufficient amount of damage to be in a Mythic+ group, it isn't the game's fault. Get over yourself.

[Gravityx]

The thing I don't understand is why so many people are triggered by it. If the group is declining you because they have some bias towards locks...then you are better off without them. Anyone who even thinks someone is bad because of a class, is most likely a trash player anyways.

Destro has some of the best cleave in the game, and even on high AoE can keep up fine. Look on the bright side: you are dodging the shit groups ez.

[Gaidax]

I am sorry, but if you can not pull good numbers in high level M+ dungeons at least as Destruction, then it's on you, really.

[Windirmere]

My 851 fire mage gets declined allot to, people want melee cleave for mythics

[Deleted]

Or you could have actually read what he was saying, which is that none of you are robots and are all separated by individual skill, skill which can set you pretty far apart from your peers.

Which applies just as much to the people saying they're performing well in dungeons, though Jondar seems to take that as an insult to the people he's playing with as opposed to a compliment to him being straight up better.

However, instead of relying on anecdotal evidence, you can try looking at actual rankings - warlocks seem pretty underrepresented in them.
We're far form bad, but we're low down enough that any pug, which is usually bombarded with join requests, has ample better choices most of the time before you hit the warlock.

People seem to prefer to handwave away any remotely solid looking data though and prefer to say "but I'm doing well!". Yeah, so am I - I'm usually either top or second at worst in my group on trash and bosses - hell, even the QOL went through the roof with the ROF cast time removal. It's purely anecdotal though and has a lot more to do with the group composition and people I play with than the state of the class in general.
People pretending warlocks are anything more than middle of the pack seem to be going against the numbers. Middle of the pack aint that bad though

[Deleted]

It is funny how this thread is about warlocks being declined before they can ever show what they are capable off and the thread diverted into "git gud I can pull those numbers".

I think Destro are okay for Mythics+. Not as good as melees, but Shadowfury every 30 seconds does help a lot with reducing incoming damage.

Still the general perception of warlocks is bad and that is not because of bad warlock players.