Enhancement: Doom Vortex Trait - Fixed

[Professor Expert]

Doom Vortex
Windfury now deals an additional 50% of its total damage as fire damage to all enemies within 10 yds of the shaman.


Right?

[Fitsu]

I'd rather than fix lava lash, making it a useful skill and part of our rotation.

[Huanak]

Doom Vortex
LAVA LASH now deals an additional 50% of its total damage as fire damage to all enemies within 10 yds of the shaman.


Right?

I fixed it for you

[Professor Expert]

I'd rather than fix lava lash, making it a useful skill and part of our rotation.

That's another topic. For now, LL is a maelstrom dump.

I fixed it for you

50% of LL damage as AoE would make the whole crash lightning thing irrelevant. An ability called Doom Vortex should by implication be an improvement to windfury, and a cooler animation would be nice.

[Deleted]

Doom Vortex is so laughable bad I doubt one can fix it.

[Deleted]

I would be very sad if they changed Doom Winds to be windfury-related, and it's "fairly easy" to balance out Doom Vortex and make it somewhat useful. At the moment, it has a 25% chance to proc, but because we use Lava Lash so sparingly (in our current setup) it's not something we would proc very often. Other specs, eg Hot Hand, would proc it more often, due to the increased number of lava lashes, but there are other issues with Lava Lash to make it less desirable.

Change Doom Vortex to a PPM based chance. This would mean that if we cast Lava Lash very infrequently, we would still proc it on the first Lava Lash of the rotation, and then again fairly often in our rotation.

But we could also just look at fixing Lava Lash itself, and I want to do that by swapping around the Maelstorm cost of Lava Lash and Crash Lightning. What this would do is that we would NOT be using Crash Lightning on single target (very often) but instead just use Lava Lash instead. Let me explain:

Here is the damage done by the different abilities:

Crash Lightning: 100% damage (per target hit) = 5% damage per Maelstrom Spent
CL talented: 100% + 14 * 6 = 184% damage (per target hit) = 9,2% damage per MS spent
Lava Lash: 505% damage per hit = 16,83 - ah, but it's offhand damage, so divide it by two = 8,42% damage per MS spent

This is why, when we have the Crashing Storm talent, we only cast LL to burn off excess MS if CL is on cooldown and we are about to cap our MS.

But what would happen if we swapped the cost around?

Crash Lightning (ST): 100% damage = 3,33% damage/MS
CL talented (ST): 100 + 14 * 6 = 184% damage = 6,13 damage/MS
Lava Lash (ST, obviously): 505% damage per hit = 25,25 damage/MS, divided by two = 12,63% damage per MS spent

What does this do to our rotation? Well, it means that CL is not worth casting in a single target rotation. Single target would be focusing on Stormstrikes, Lava Lashes and Flame/Hail. At 2+ targets, we could weave in the Crash Lightning as well to do cleave damage. Untalented, CL would still be a damage loss in terms of Maelstrom Spent, but we would get the cleave damage on top of it, making it worth it - and if talented, the damage is on par with Lava Lash's damage per maelstrom.

There is a little benefit from it CL, in that we have the Gathering Storm trait. Currently, we use CL in Single Target fights because of the 6-12% added Stormstrike damage, but if we swapped the MS cost around, it would still not be useful to cast CL in a single target situation. But the trait will obviously shine the more targets we have, making CL the obvious choice in multi target fights.

The above would need some tuning, of course - maybe increase the duration of Crash Lightning's cleave duration or something similar, but I think it's a step in the right direction to ensure that we use single target spells in single target situations and AOE spells in multi target situations.

How would that effect Doom Vortex? Well, we would be using Lava Lash a whole lot more in Single Target, meaning we would see more of those 25% proc chances go off. In AOE situations, we would do crash lightning and then either have a bunch of Stormbringer procs (and use those) or spend our MS on Lava Lashes, which means vortexes as well.

[Torcida]

But we could also just look at fixing Lava Lash itself, and I want to do that by swapping around the Maelstorm cost of Lava Lash and Crash Lightning. What this would do is that we would NOT be using Crash Lightning on single target (very often) but instead just use Lava Lash instead.

We would still use Crash Lightning on Cooldown due to Stormbringer.

Stormbringer is triggered on anything that involves your mainhand weapon. So in this case using Crash Lightning has a chance (5%+Mastery) to trigger Stormbringer.

This doesn't apply to Lava lash, making it inferior.

Everyone has their own ideas to fix it though, who knows what they will do

[Darleth]

We would still use Crash Lightning on Cooldown due to Stormbringer.

Stormbringer is triggered on anything that involves your mainhand weapon. So in this case using Crash Lightning has a chance (5%+Mastery) to trigger Stormbringer.

This doesn't apply to Lava lash, making it inferior.

Everyone has their own ideas to fix it though, who knows what they will do

That would change though, if I'm not mistaken, with Nightholds Tierbonuses. If I remember correctly, the 4 piece set bonus gives us a chance to proc stormbringer on LL. 50% of LL damage as AoE would basically increase our AoE overall and lava lash would somewhat become the king in AoE situations.

Personally speaking: increasing the hitboxxes of the vortexes and increasing their speed would already fix it... also, remove the damn proc chance FOR the vortex itself and give us a reason to use Lava Lash more often in a fight.

[Deleted]

That would change though, if I'm not mistaken, with Nightholds Tierbonuses. If I remember correctly, the 4 piece set bonus gives us a chance to proc stormbringer on LL. 50% of LL damage as AoE would basically increase our AoE overall and lava lash would somewhat become the king in AoE situations.

Personally speaking: increasing the hitboxxes of the vortexes and increasing their speed would already fix it... also, remove the damn proc chance FOR the vortex itself and give us a reason to use Lava Lash more often in a fight.

i aint sure if the 4piece set will we such a great thing cuz most of our set items doesnt have mastery on it so taking 4set well makes us lose alot of mastery, and prob a dps loss,think we need to stick with 2piece

[Paleaura]

i aint sure if the 4piece set will we such a great thing cuz most of our set items doesnt have mastery on it so taking 4set well makes us lose alot of mastery, and prob a dps loss,think we need to stick with 2piece

We would be losing out on one piece of gear without mastery, and the gloves from Nighthold are itemized in the exact same way, so unless you have a pair of 885+ gloves, with haste/mastery, using the 4p wont be a net loss. just run chest/gloves/legs/helm (all of which are larger dps increases than their nighthold counterparts)

[Torcida]

That would change though, if I'm not mistaken, with Nightholds Tierbonuses. If I remember correctly, the 4 piece set bonus gives us a chance to proc stormbringer on LL. 50% of LL damage as AoE would basically increase our AoE overall and lava lash would somewhat become the king in AoE situations.

Personally speaking: increasing the hitboxxes of the vortexes and increasing their speed would already fix it... also, remove the damn proc chance FOR the vortex itself and give us a reason to use Lava Lash more often in a fight.

No, the set bonus to my understanding got swapped for enhancement shaman

What we currently see;

2pc - +20% chance on SS crit
4pc - LL has a 20% chance to proc Stormbringer


Future Change;

2pc - +40% to SS Crit
4pc - While Flametongue is active, increase damage by 10%

- - - Updated - - -

As a side note, I'd love to see a change to Lava Lash, and one that I would like to actually see is an 'AoE' Burst so to speak.

Make Lava Lash apply a debuff to the target you hit, say a 12 sec duration, and this debuff on it's own does nothing, but one you Stormstrike the target it causes it to burst and deal AoE Damage. From there Doom Vortex can amplify that. Make it so that AoE burst now ticks multiple times when you do this combo.

This is just an idea with no numbers assigned to it.

[Nitwit]

No, the set bonus to my understanding got swapped for enhancement shaman

What we currently see;

2pc - +20% chance on SS crit
4pc - LL has a 20% chance to proc Stormbringer


Future Change;

2pc - +40% to SS Crit
4pc - While Flametongue is active, increase damage by 10%

Where are you seeing the 4p change?

2p was already changed for 7.1

[ehxy]

Where are you seeing the 4p change?

2p was already changed for 7.1

It's uh..kinda like a theoretical what if we did this instead...kind of post..like the first one

[Deleted]

The 40% crit is only for Stormbringer procs. So no SB proc, no increased crit chance. And we don't know yet if Tempest actually counts, might be only the first SS after SB proc. That's why the 40% chance is actually justified.

About LL: Difficult to predict. Crash Lightning should be weaker on single target with 4pc, but the problem is: crash lightning is cheaper. So we might still use CL to get MORE SB procs when we are low at MS. If you have tons of MS, you can use LL. But if you're at 40 ms, you should use CL to get extra SB procs.

Set bonuses arent currently implemented.

And there's no 4p change up to now. It's still 20% chance on LL to proc SB.

[ehxy]

The 40% crit is only for Stormbringer procs. So no SB proc, no increased crit chance. And we don't know yet if Tempest actually counts, might be only the first SS after SB proc. That's why the 40% chance is actually justified.

About LL: Difficult to predict. Crash Lightning should be weaker on single target with 4pc, but the problem is: crash lightning is cheaper. So we might still use CL to get MORE SB procs when we are low at MS. If you have tons of MS, you can use LL. But if you're at 40 ms, you should use CL to get extra SB procs.

Set bonuses arent currently implemented.

And there's no 4p change up to now. It's still 20% chance on LL to proc SB.

It's crap plain and simple. Any proper rotation barely uses LL with us using it perhaps give or take 15-20x every 100 stormstrikes. It's a QoL added chance to proc stormbringer that is still something I would not change my rotation for to leave me maelstrom starved when the time comes. We can do what? A max of 2 lava lashes from max before CL is back up or have to rebuff?

It's a horrible 4p bonus.

[Deleted]

It's crap plain and simple. Any proper rotation barely uses LL with us using it perhaps give or take 15-20x every 100 stormstrikes. It's a QoL added chance to proc stormbringer that is still something I would not change my rotation for to leave me maelstrom starved when the time comes. We can do what? A max of 2 lava lashes from max before CL is back up or have to rebuff?

It's a horrible 4p bonus.

The problem is: LL is currently broken. It has no real role, we barely dump with LL because CL is stronger and SB is sooooo much more important.

IMO they should give LL baseline proc chance for SB and increase its damage by 100%. After that there would still be room to nerf SB proc chance or simply nerf tempest. Maybe SS shouldnt proc SB to avoid chain procs?

Simply increasing LL damage isnt enough to give it a purpose. They could buff its damage by 300% and give it a 9 sec CD so you'll want to use it on CD.

I mean there are 1000 ways to make LL useful. But so far, it looks like they ignore LL so far. Maybe because the whole spec itself seems to work fine and they have other problems to solve?

[ehxy]

The problem is: LL is currently broken. It has no real role, we barely dump with LL because CL is stronger and SB is sooooo much more important.

IMO they should give LL baseline proc chance for SB and increase its damage by 100%. After that there would still be room to nerf SB proc chance or simply nerf tempest. Maybe SS shouldnt proc SB to avoid chain procs?

Simply increasing LL damage isnt enough to give it a purpose. They could buff its damage by 300% and give it a 9 sec CD so you'll want to use it on CD.

I mean there are 1000 ways to make LL useful. But so far, it looks like they ignore LL so far. Maybe because the whole spec itself seems to work fine and they have other problems to solve?

I'm not going to disagree with a damage buff for LL but to be realistic I think making LL refresh FT/FB(HS) ONLY if both are up would be a nice little incentive so we do not have to go through our stupid rebuff rotation. That would make the rotation as smooth as monks and justify the maelstrom use WITH the 4p bonus.