Reasonable ilvl to be able to clear new Karazhan ?

[tikcol]

There is only one reasonable item level.

The item level the group leader requests, everything else is potato talk

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Guild / Organised Group: ~845+

Random / Group Finder: ~855+

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That's a whole different issue though. People are padding iLevel because they can, and they don't care for the stats. It's stupid, but are you really going to vet everyone for a Dungeon that extensively? You should trust in people with a higher iLevel do more damage, and while not always the case, it's not something I'm going to stress about.

If I invite a 860 Fire Mage and they do less damage than an 845 Rogue for example, they're being kicked. No questions asked.

The only problem is if you do this several times over it almost becomes toxic to the group. I have been in groups were people did the right thing and removed players that were honestly terrible and holding the group back. But they always use the same logic in getting the replacement. Higher item level. So you set yourself up for the same failure. If that same failure happens 2-3 times the run is pretty much dead. I mean it feels like you are sitting around just replacing people.

I think the worse thing Blizzard ever did was the focus on item level. If they plan to continue going down this road they need to insure that stats of gear people get are useful instead of a fire mage getting a vers haste 880 cloak and feeling they need to equip it because of some stupid item level boost culture. Yeah I get it really good players know whats up and do the right thing. The problem is that a lot of these really good players are also to lazy to look beyond item level when tossing invites.

[Dangg]

Have fun with 840 pugs boys. Disband before Maiden inc.

[Theholypally]

how so, with the old mythics me and my mates level alts to 110 and jump straight into the mythics with w/e ilvl we have from dinging, apart from a few wipes on trash here and there we're completely fine usually. we usually hit 110 with around 800ish ilvl.

This is nothing like old mythics. You cannot compare the two.

Just getting passed maiden requires your dps to pull 300k+ sustained the whole fight. You will not do that at ilvl 800 so don't kid yourself please.

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Have fun with 840 pugs boys. Disband before Maiden inc.

Yeah...people just dont seem to understand this lol

[Deleted]

Just getting passed maiden requires your dps to pull 300k+ sustained the whole fight. You will not do that at ilvl 800 so don't kid yourself please.

There are specs that still can't do it even if perfectly played.

[xpose]

Of course its a little harder.
7.0 Mythics at 825 is good. I did mythics with friends who had 810s when we first started. They dropped 840s. Add 15 ilvls to what's needed for 7.0 mythics and you get what is needed for Kara. Go with 830s with your friends. I'm expecting to go through kara on alts that are 830 or so with my mates.

So YES. Exactly how I said. Just cause you like to be carried doesn't mean what I said was wrong. People have to use their brain instead of following the LFG crowd like sheep.

lul, have fun wiping.

[Axelond]

I would bring 870+ to do it under 2.5hrs.

[stevenho]

Cleared it today in a 875 group, I'd say at 850 it will be quite an adventure during first few clears while people learn the bosses/trash.

[Deleted]

The difficulty surprised me, allthough it wasnt hard for me but for 3 of my guildmates it was pretty hard. We are all 860-870 and wiped around 20 times, 15 to bosses and 5 to random ninja pulls or big pack pulls. Our classes sucked for AOE so it took around 3 hours to complete. Pugging this with people below 860 seems kinda cancerous rofl, i would not recommend it. Btw, where is nightbane? Hes not in the dungeon journal but you can see the loot he drops on wowhead and shit. Is he hidden or is he coming soon?

[7empest]

840 ilvl on the first pages, haha. Maiden says hello, she will kick your ass back to the entrance until you give up.

Karazhan is rightfully called a mini-raid, it has nothing in common with any other mythic. Then again, it seems that many of the fights favor certain comps and if you can't bring the burst (Again, Maiden) then it's rip.rip.rip, for PUG's at least.

[Tojara]

Karazhan is certainly a mini-raid if anything. With 880 gear we blew through it pretty fast and honestly you can easily do it in an hour with that kinda gear (obviously). I will say that if you stripped 30 iLvLs off of our gear it would actually be pretty challenging content, but I think that's okay considering the quality of loot that can drop.

It starts with 855 gear and I doubt you would want to do it with anything less than 850 gear at least if you were doing a full pug group. In a fully organized group it would still be pretty difficult with 850 gear, but it's something I'd probably try, just not with pugs.

Hard to gauge difficulty but I can say without a shadow of a doubt just by feeling when doing it (overgeared) that there are a number of bosses that would be incredibly difficult with way lower gear. Lots of healing checks in addition to decent numbers checks. Shade of Aran is actually a fairly easy boss numbers wise, but will fuck you up pretty bad if you don't do the mechanics correctly. On the flip side Maiden will wipe you if you do the mechanics wrong and requires actual DPS or you die anyway. Mana worm felt like this as well.

Place would feel brutal in 830 gear though, let alone 840.

[Silvaren7]

It seems the point of it is to need only a few pieces, but otherwise be 850+ with a solid group. At say 860+ there is honestly no reason to run the dungeon as the time it takes along with the minimal gear (your group will get 1 piece per boss). Realistically I would expect to be 855 to do the place, then after all your quests for it are done, just never do it again. There is honestly no reason to run it after maybe 2 attempts as you will gain considerably more gear running mythic+ dungeons as the time/gear ratio is just not worth it. For more casual players it seems EXTREMELY over tuned. For your average heroic raider its tuning is pretty solid. If the goal was to give casuals something to works towards that isn't a raid or mythic+, its definitely poorly designed.

[wombats23]

you get 4 pieces of 855+ gear and 4 pieces of 860+ (and 1 piece of 875+ given you can beat the timer) for 1.5-2 hours of work. you'd probably take closer to just 1 hour after your first run through, since the mechanics are pretty easy to handle after you've seen them for the first time.

IIRC, to get baseline 855 gear, you need to finish a mythic 7 keystone. if you're able to constantly 2/3 chest mythic 7 keystones, then yeah, kara is probably worthless to you. but if you're still in need of the gear, kara gives your group 8 guaranteed pieces of gear for a dungeon i personally consider to be easier than its mythic keystone equivalent. also, you get to roll on bosses, which if you're fishing for your BiS relic traits, is just gravy.

kara doesn't feel overtuned. it just has actual mechanics that can wipe you. and even then, after your first run through, the mechanics are pretty darn simplistic in design, they're just absolutely unforgiving if you choose to ignore them.

my only negative criticism of kara is the long run back after wipes. perhaps blizzard is trying to convince you to read the dungeon journal on the run back, but other than that, the respawn areas just seems like pure laziness on blizzard's part.

edit: the first four bosses give 855 gear while the last four give 860 gear apparently.

[Silvaren7]

you get 4 pieces of 855+ gear and 4 pieces of 860+ (and 1 piece of 875+ given you can beat the timer) for 1.5-2 hours of work. you'd probably take closer to just 1 hour after your first run through, since the mechanics are pretty easy to handle after you've seen them for the first time.

The bosses have pretty specific loot tables, so in most cases I would say you either need everything (850-855 range) and since its a once a week dungeon it will be closer to how Arcway/CoS are in pugs aka people don't remember that shit, let alone most people won't repeat it more then twice. So I would say 2-4 hrs every time or you need only a few pieces (855-865 range) so there is a good chance you only need stuff from say 4 of the bosses so you both have to get the single drop per boss AND it has to be the correct item and even at 855-865 you are looking at around 2 hours+ per run until you stop doing it. After doing it with a full ~870 group I am expecting another run next week to take around 1.5-2 hrs with a ~870 group once everyone has an idea of what is going on.

So ya I don't see any group that actually needs most of the gear taking anywhere close to 1 hr, in most cases you should set aside a 3-4 hr chunk every week if you are planning to do pug Kara or do it with average or below average players.

[Rotted]

the first 5-6 bosses drop 855

Id say 850 would be more than enough, 845 - ok, 840 - maybe too low ?

but thats jsut guessing

I'd take 840 tbf,

a guldie tanked en normal 7/7 last night, we one shot everything. I'd say it's more down to the individual and knowing the class. Also (and it does baffle me) I know people we still haven't got their third rate, so that drops their ilvl right down, regardless what they have equipped already

[Deleted]

pugged it with 2 rogue and a spriest, all of us 872-878 with mythic ursoc/+10 keystones.

Was pretty easy going in blind, very sloppy performance but we managed to just brute force it down, overall the health/damage of the bosses are not tuned in line for the gear they drop, trash hp is a bit on the high side as well. Will still be running it with a 875+ farm group every week for my trinkets/AP/legendaries though.

[Yizu]

I know it wasn't always viewable. That was my point, back when there weren't "link curve or GTFO" or "870+ ilvl only!" groups all the time, pugging instances or raids was more fun. Sure, sometimes you'd have a bad apple, but people also seemed more patient and nice back then.

I think you were playing a different game lol

[Deleted]

Best remedy is to go with Guild or friends.

One thing I've notice since lfg came out a lot people are anti social.

Nope. I just don't have time to wait and look for a group which takes me as DPS, when I can on the other hand be sorted into a group by a machine and switch my attention so something productive in the meantime.

I run group content almost every day, I just find the group finder obnoxious.

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I think you were playing a different game lol

Nope, this is also my experience. Maybe because I play on RP realms exclusively.