Do ilvl on necks and rings matter?

[0verdose]

Just got a heroic neck from xavius and want to replace my 850 version of the same neck. The thing is that I'm also losing out on a socket when I switch pieces. I lose about .30% crit but gain a tad bit of haste + Stam + ilvl. Do ilvls on pieces that don't give str matter anymore? Or should I just run the 850 neck until I get a socketed upgrade.

[Deleted]

no, ilvls on rings and necks don't matter tbh. you want crit and haste, if you have lets say a 840 with crit haste and get a 880 with crit mastery or versa, it might be worth it, but if it has like versa/mastery (2 of the worst stats), keep your 840 with BIS stats (unholy)

[AwkwardSquirtle]

While the you might not want to wear the ilvl upgrade, it's worth holding on to, since it will let you trade lower ilvl personal loot of it's useful for a friend you're grouping with.

[Deleted]

Friendly info about gems, someone in my guild did the math, and they came up that a socket is worth about 15ilvls in rings/necklaces. What that means, is that for a same exact ring, one ilvl840 and one 865, if the 840 version has a socket, with the proper gem in it, both rings should be an absolute side grade, with very little variation in a simulation environment.

Basically, ilvl is worthless, it all depends on its stats, and a socket will make it that much more valuable. It's all about what stats you get from it. Since there's no strength on them, ignore ilvl entirely and just do simple math of adding up the stats, preferably with the stat combo you want, and use the neck with the most.

EDIT: Meant 15 ilvls and not 25, got it wrong, my bad

[0verdose]

Alright, well they are both the same neck pieces, one is just 850 + a socket while the other is 865 ilvl. Both crit and haste necklaces that is my EN bis. Nice to know I'll be sticking with the socketed piece

[Saybel]

875 crit/versi neck was an upgrade over 850 haste/crit neck for me

so ilvl does matter sometimes, not always, but sometimes

[Deleted]

Alright, well they are both the same neck pieces, one is just 850 + a socket while the other is 865 ilvl. Both crit and haste necklaces that is my EN bis. Nice to know I'll be sticking with the socketed piece

Just fyi, I got the number wrong, gem is worth about 15ilvls, not 25. Sorry about that one.

[pixelated senpai]

875 crit/versi neck was an upgrade over 850 haste/crit neck for me

so ilvl does matter sometimes, not always, but sometimes

Seems like in that case the crit was worth it more than the lost of haste.

[Saybel]

Seems like in that case the crit was worth it more than the lost of haste.

They are very close in value to the point where they switch around - just happens that the extra stats were an upgrade because versi isn't that bad either. My point is it's not always as simple as "best 2 stats = BiS neck". You should sim stuff before you make a decision to delete pieces!

[Choda]

It's simple math really. Let's say, for the sake of the argument that for you, crit has a weight of 125, haste is 109, versatility is 89 and mastery is 79. Now if we look at two rings:

Ring A (835)
+840 crit
+380 haste

Ring B (850)
+1125 versatility
+640 mastery

By our stat weights Ring A is worth (840 * 125) + (109 * 380) = 146420.
Ring B on the other hand, even though it has the two inferior stats, is worth (1125 * 89) + (640 * 79) = 150685

Thus, Ring B is an upgrade. If Ring A had a socket, that'd be another 150 crit, so another 18750 points, bringing it up to 165170, making it the superior choice.

As you can see, inferior stats need to beef up their numbers quite a bit to trump a best-stat lower-level ring (or neck for that matter). You just need to sim everything and see what pops up.

[Baddok21]

For items with the exact same stat ratio (Rings,Necks) you need +20 ilvls for it to outweight a Gem socket (+15 ilvls is sitll lightly worse) that is of course if your not looking for a stamina upgrade.

IN THE CASE of the Death knight class Necklace (which can be 855 come tuesday) you need a 875 neck to beat it.

But there is 1 extremely relevant thing about the death knight necklace you must consider.

any raid fight that has you move to drop a debuff (rot for example) will generally activate the necklace giving you an increase of DPS since you will get back ot the boss quicker. That one Utility personally i say gives the necklace a value well past the +20 ilvl difference.

most of the "move away from boss mechanics" generally come with a heavy amount of dmg once you do, the benefit of that 20% sprint (if you use WW to drop the debuff instead of get back on the boss) to me personally is better than a +30 ilvl upgrade on a neck that gives the exact same stat ratio's (without a socket).

880 Mythic Xavius neck
1448 STAM
1350 Crit
704 Haste

VS

850 Crafted neck
1094 STAM
1311 Crit
525 Haste
()Socket
20% run speed if you are reduced below 50% health

you loose 39 crit and 179 Haste, however since the JC neck always has a gem you actually loose a total of 68 secondary stats, if your actually a JC its still alose till +35 ilvls.

in either case +stam and +68 secondaries is not worth the necks utility for awhile. (however an 880 Xavius neck with a socket i would have to take)

[spanishninja]

For items with the exact same stat ratio (Rings,Necks) you need +20 ilvls for it to outweight a Gem socket (+15 ilvls is sitll lightly worse) that is of course if your not looking for a stamina upgrade.

IN THE CASE of the Death knight class Necklace (which can be 855 come tuesday) you need a 875 neck to beat it.

But there is 1 extremely relevant thing about the death knight necklace you must consider.

any raid fight that has you move to drop a debuff (rot for example) will generally activate the necklace giving you an increase of DPS since you will get back ot the boss quicker. That one Utility personally i say gives the necklace a value well past the +20 ilvl difference.

most of the "move away from boss mechanics" generally come with a heavy amount of dmg once you do, the benefit of that 20% sprint (if you use WW to drop the debuff instead of get back on the boss) to me personally is better than a +30 ilvl upgrade on a neck that gives the exact same stat ratio's (without a socket).

880 Mythic Xavius neck
1448 STAM
1350 Crit
704 Haste

VS

850 Crafted neck
1094 STAM
1311 Crit
525 Haste
()Socket
20% run speed if you are reduced below 50% health

you loose 39 crit and 179 Haste, however since the JC neck always has a gem you actually loose a total of 68 secondary stats, if your actually a JC its still alose till +35 ilvls.

in either case +stam and +68 secondaries is not worth the necks utility for awhile. (however an 880 Xavius neck with a socket i would have to take)

dude put 200 str gem in that socket man.

[Frolk]

Using Pawn and SimCraft addon helps when deciding if an ring/neck is an upgrade

[Baddok21]

well im probably only going to use that gem in the legendary mini-lust ring

[0verdose]

^ yeah I put my str gem in my legendary ring socket. well I just simmed both necks and the 850 + socket beats the 865 heroic ring by like 500 dps so I'll be sticking to the 850.

[spanishninja]

ring and neck itemization are so shit. what were they thinking not having them contain primary stats?

[0verdose]

ring and neck itemization are so shit. what were they thinking not having them contain primary stats?

It was to make the rings and necks usable by every class in the game. They did this because of their fucked up garing system, they didn't want to turn it into more of a shifted than it already is. Gear is highly saturated right now, imagine if there were class specific necks and rings as well?

[spanishninja]

It was to make the rings and necks usable by every class in the game. They did this because of their fucked up garing system, they didn't want to turn it into more of a shifted than it already is. Gear is highly saturated right now, imagine if there were class specific necks and rings as well?

but cloaks are also usable by every class in the game. just make rings and necks have flexible primary stats. done.

[Deleted]

ring and neck itemization are so shit. what were they thinking not having them contain primary stats?

They just need to go back to exponential secondary stat scaling on items without primary stats. It´s quiet obvious that otherwise ilvl upgrades are almost useless in alot of cases.