Poll: Should Destruction go back to Emberbits for generation shards/embers

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Problem with Embers baseline on the other was that you could spend ridiculous time spamming filler, unless CR and/or final tier of expansion with jacked up stats and tier bonuses.
    That could easily be solved by reducing the amount of emberbits required to fill a whole Ember, somewhere between 5 - 7 would be nice.

  2. #42
    Deleted
    I want the full functionality and aesthetics of Burning Embers back. They can fill up a bit faster if that would make gameplay really slow. Give back Dark Soul with two charges as well so we have a reason to pools embers.

    But really, please give back the aesthetics as well Blizzard. I loved the look and feel of Embers, the way your character got set on fire on higher Embers, the way it felt like you were really building up for something big (massive Chaos Bolts). Soul Shards do not have the same connection with Destruction. They make sense for Affliction and lesser but still some for Demonology, but they feel completely out of place as a resource mechanic for Destruction. It actually differentiated us in a way from Fire Mages by having the fantasy of going beyond what a Fire Mage would be comfortable with (silly Mages), unleashing the full power of Fel and Fire magic combined, culminating in these Burning Embers.

    And besides, 'Soul Shard Bits' would not make any sense at all. All the more reason to return to Burning Embers!
    Last edited by mmoc5a65aaa171; 2016-12-09 at 08:43 AM.

  3. #43
    Deleted
    Blizzard already said it is not easy to go back to embers and therefore won't happen. Perhaps they show up with something else.
    /close

  4. #44
    Problem with generation right now is it's very feast or famine.

    Single target it's pretty mediocre, as soon as a second target enters the picture it's very easy to keep Eradication chains flowing.

    It's pretty much like affliction, crappy in single target better in multi.

  5. #45
    Shards are fine, I want at least some of our mobility back. Getting f@d by every single encounter that requires movement, because we have an entirety of ONE spell with a medium cooldown that we can cast while moving is ridiculous.

  6. #46
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    This change doesn't mean they'll increase CB dmg, that is an entirely separate issue that you'd need to express to them. They can and very likely will keep the shard generation roughly the same, and just change the method in which we get them.

    Do you remember charred remains? You were shooting off chaosbolts more frequently than you do now, yet it ran on embers.
    I took a break from WOD early during highmaul due our guild broke down and came back to tanaan for some casual grinds (flying, lfr).
    To this point CR wasn't the go to talent iirc. So my memories for raiding are mostly based on mop destruction.

    For my late wod experience i found CB with F&B quite fun, but iirc i still was building embers actively and not waiting for them to come out of the nether.

    Since im not a native speaker you summed it up quiet well:
    "I'd much prefer to go back to something closer to end tier mop where you still got a healthy amount of embers but you still had to be significantly more critical with how you spent them and they hit a hell of a lot harder when you did."

    I also liked the use of BASELINE shadowburn and the benefit from a correct usage, but this is an other issue i guess.

  7. #47
    Mind if I roll need? xskarma's Avatar
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    I don't want to say I want Embers back until I see how they implement it. Not giving out my vote of confidence on this until I know what exactly I am getting with the change.

    I mean, what problem exactly are we fixing with this and how bad is that problem compared to the inevitable downside that the new system has on our playstyle? Things could be better as Destro, but I can't honestly say that changing the resource system tackles any of the problems I have with the spec.

    So, let's hear the full plan before getting all hyped about it. I've been burned (pun intended) by changes to Warlocks a bit too often to sign off on wholesale changes based on just a very simple and incomplete statement.

  8. #48
    Deleted
    I think the problem with warlocks compared to MoP/WoD is that we miss the old resource systems and got turned into ranged rogues with combopoints.

    I really liked the Fury/Ember resources because we could save some of our resource for times when we needed the damage or when we got a big buff rolling. Nowadays we have no buffs so speak of (trinkets/neck enchant is all passive/dmg proc with 0 interaction) and no resources to pool either. This results in no way to game the system to our favor and into flat specs with mechanical rotations.

    There is almost never a reason to hold back a Chaosbolt, we get to 5 shards pretty quick at times. Demo runs between 0 and 5 shards all the time. Affliction can pool the most with up to 5 UA's but they are the most prone to feast/famine.

    Personally I miss the old Meta Demo the most. where we would build resources with SB/SF and when we finaly got near max fury we would go HULK mode and destroy the world with SF/DB/CW. Empowering us, jumping into melee with DL and turning Immolate aura on (sometimes with MF for 500% range/100% dmg). That made me feel awesome.
    Last edited by mmocee9aeb2a21; 2016-12-09 at 09:08 AM.

  9. #49
    I want the RNG part to be removed, because with Embers and no RNG it was easier to predict damage. "Can I throw 2, 3 or 4 Chaos Bolts at this enemy?" I don't know (for PvP). I feel I'm sometimes capping Shards, but I can't always prevent it (again, PvP). That's why I'm also missing our on-demand heal (I forgot the name). I just want more predictability back
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys
    Gaze upon the field in which I grow my fucks, and see that it is barren.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Can't have that because firemages needed the visuals, now can we?
    It's a bit ironic really. Just before the release of Legion they release this big compendium on lore that really cements that Arcane = Order and Fel = Disorder/Chaos. Then in Legion suddenly mages are using uncontrollably volatile fire magic that puts themselves on fire and we lose that aesthetic.

  11. #51
    Yeah, the embers made much more sense. Also they need to bring back the burning effect for each ember you did have.

  12. #52
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jutath View Post
    Yeah, the embers made much more sense. Also they need to bring back the burning effect for each ember you did have.
    pretty much this

  13. #53
    We've been getting a lot of "be careful what you wish for" with the devs this expansion

    We wanted mobility, and got a little mobility at the cost of a LOT of survivability with 7.1, it ended up being a signficant nerf
    We didn't like to be forced to spec into aoe OR single target, and the 7.1.5 solution is that we're going to be worse at both in the absence of any other numbers buffs (and I highly doubt the pet damage buff will come even close to fully compensating)

    And it's really really worrying that the devs have outright said that if they make the changes to make shards function like embers, we can expect it to be a nerf, not a buff.

    We're already the worst single target spec in the game, 7.1.5 will likely make us even worse as changes currently stand, and if their idea of fixing some of the mechanical issues with the spec is to take away even more damage, I'm fully done with this game and I feel I'm not the only one.

  14. #54
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    So I switched from hunter to lock this expansion (I have a 71 horde lock but never had it at end game)... and the thing I dislike about shards as they are now is that they're a required resource that's RNG. Coming from a hunter where focus regenerates at a base amount over time, it's annoying. At times, I can have plenty of shards... and then 10-15 seconds of none. Yes, I can use Conflag to get ONE. But one is useless as CB needs 2. There's no spell that I can cast with one.

    Options:

    1) shards regen over time, 1 shard per X seconds. Conflag stays the same.
    2) same as above but we get an extra conflate charge.
    3) current system but conflate generates 2 shards per use.
    4) AS now, but Immolate's chance to generate a shard is increased and/or haste affects Immolate ticks more.

    I know, I know, Feretory. Most of us don't have it and won't. Oh right T19... but a) some of us won't have even the LFR set much less normal or better and... what happens in T20? Unless they maintain that bonus (which would be underwhelming since it isn't a new bonus), we'd be fine for a tier and then back to... what?

  15. #55
    I also have Feretory + 25% soul snatcher and while there are moments where i get really good rng and have insane shard generation there are still bad rng moments that really piss me off, especially in M+ where fights are much shorter. Having incinerate and immolate ticks generate partial shards would make rng less of a factor and would make me enjoy my class more often than i do now. If they did that, reworked SC to be less rng but a strong ST talent, gave us baseline RE+BD, and changed our shit rng mastery I would be 100% happy with my spec again.

  16. #56
    Deleted
    It's a no-brainer. I'm strongly against Soul Shards as they are in Legion for Destruction.

    It's never been nor will be a fulfilling resource as it stands. For one you're at the mercy of some "god" in the sky who decides whether Immolate should grant you a soul shard or not, thus you'll be having periods of extreme downtime without being able to affect the outcome. On the other hand you might have great RNG, and cast a ton of Chaos Bolts. It's also prone to simply granting too many soul shards. The same scenario with Charred Remains in WoD where your Chaos Bolt starts becoming your standard means of damage. Not necessarily a bad thing depending on how you like your gameplay, but I prefer building up to a meaty Chaos Bolt or 2. CB shouldn't be such a frequent spell to cast in my opinion, as a lot of the flavor of actually casting a Chaos Bolt just dies out.

    Essentially 5.4 Destruction Warlock is the best shape it's been in as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't give 2 shits about Kil'Jaeden's cunning. The talent isn't integral to what Destruction Warlock used to be.

    Obviously it's never going back to 100% MoP Destro lock, nor should it. I wish for something that resembles that iteration closer than both WoD and especially Legion's.

  17. #57
    I prefer the current system, having shards build quickly and semi-randomly gives a nice dynamic feel that I like. I particularly enjoyed the playstyle that came with Demonfire (before I ditched it for better numbers) as it felt fairly close to WotLK era destro.

    Personally I'd prefer to see Chaos Bolt fired quicker (maybe instant) rather than hitting harder, and maybe a higher shard cap.

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